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Can We Ban Islam?
10/01/10 at 02:02:41
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Geert Wilders' recent call at a Palm Beach synagogue to ban Islam has stirred up all sorts of controversy, with more "moderate" blogs speaking out in opposition to it. So let's take a closer look at the issue of banning Islam.

Banning Islam is more difficult in the United States than in Europe, because of the First Amendment.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

chainsOn the surface of it this is a fairly straightforward formulation barring the legislative branch from taking any action to create a state religion or barring the practice of any religion.

The founders were English citizens and well aware of the way in which religion could stoke political violence. In the late 18th century, Cromwell was not ancient history, neither were the Covenanters or the Gunpowder Plot. While they did not anticipate like the rise of an Islamic insurgency in America, they understood quite well that religion and violence could and would intersect.

That of course was one of the reasons for barring a State Church, to avoid giving the government control over religion, a situation that had resulted in much of the religious violence in England. By giving religion independence, but not political power, the First Amendment sought to avoid a repeat of the same ugliness that had marked centuries of wars in Europe.

That of course is a key point. The separation of church and state was meant to protect the integrity of both, and avoid power struggles between religious groups. There was to be no state religion, the government could not leverage religious authority and religious factions could not begin civil wars in a struggle to gain power or autonomy. For the most part it worked.

Until now the only real acid test for this approach involved the Mormon Church, an ugly history on both sides that has mostly been buried under the weight of time. More recently Scientology flared up as a cult turned church that demanded its own autonomy and did its best to make war on the government and its critics.

And then there is Islam. The first problem with using the First Amendment in defense of Islam-- is that its goal is to violate the First Amendment. Islam's widely stated goal is to become a State Religion, around the world and in America as well.

Sharia has been making steady advances in Africa and parts of Asia. Majorities of Muslims in the UK have said that they want Sharia law, and leading British figures such as the Archbishop of Canterbury have supported the introduction of Islamic law into the British legal system. Domestic advocates for Sharia, such as Noah Feldman, are pushing for the normalization of Sharia law in the United States as well.

This would in effect turn Islam into an Established Religion in the United States, itself a violation of the First Amendment.


This article is quite long but a good read......More here.....
http://www.rightsidenews.com/2010091911665/us/islam-in-america/can-we-ban-islam-...
  

Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers and it is the duty as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian Nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers.~John Jay
Are we at last brought to such humiliating and debasing degradation, that we cannot be trusted with arms for our defense?~ Patrick Henry
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intj
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Re: Can We Ban Islam?
Reply #1 - 10/01/10 at 08:21:26
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The logic of the article is fundamentally flawed. It establishes the premise that the first ammendment is weak because it forces us to accept illegal acts that are committed in the name of a religion. The premise goes beyond foolish. The argument that we must somehow accept sharia law from Islam is no different than arguing that we must accept the murder of 3000 people in New York because it was done in the name of Islam, or that we must accept the practice of human sacrifice if a particular religion requires it.

The bill of rights doesn't stop at the 1st ammendment.  There are liberties guaranteed to us by the constitution that protect us from oppression. The rights and freedoms of religious practice in the United States do not provide permission to religious insitutions to oppress us or deprive us of any of our constitutionally protected rights. This is a fundamental aspect of our consitution and of conservatism in general. To argue otherwise, as the referenced article does, is either intentionally intellectually dishonest or simple evidence that the author is uneducated about his subject matter.
  
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SUBVET
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Re: Can We Ban Islam?
Reply #2 - 10/01/10 at 08:43:11
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To argue otherwise, as the referenced article does, is either intentionally intellectually dishonest or simple evidence that the author is uneducated about his subject matter.

What we are seeing being played out is 100 percent pure opportunism by Rushdoony’s Reconstructionism  movement.

They are taking advantage of real problems that radical Islam is presenting in order to call for a domionist style government.

Supporters of this stuff have been in and out of this forum since I’ve been here and since they seem to mostly move around within conservative circles, they can be hard to spot until you start debating the first amendment.
  
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intj
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Re: Can We Ban Islam?
Reply #3 - 10/01/10 at 09:09:28
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What we are seeing being played out is 100 percent pure opportunism by Rushdoony’s Reconstructionism  movement.

They are taking advantage of real problems that radical Islam is presenting in order to call for a domionist style government.

Supporters of this stuff have been in and out of this forum since I’ve been here and since they seem to mostly move around within conservative circles, they can be hard to spot until you start debating the first amendment.


There's a name I haven't heard in a while. But do you think it's intentional? I'm not sure that there is that much thought being put into it.
  
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SUBVET
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Re: Can We Ban Islam?
Reply #4 - 10/01/10 at 09:41:45
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But do you think it's intentional?

I really believe that.

Here’s why:

The Jihadists are a real problem.  A submissive US Government is a real problem.  Since everyone knows that those two are real problem, all you need now is a healthy dose of scapegoating and the next thing you know, they can step forward and offer up that the 1st Amendment can and should be applied in such a way that excludes non-Christians from protection.

Since dominionists are mostly conservative in their ideology, they easily pass as just a harmless little subset of the overall conservative movement and therefore their arguments can be distributed by the usual sources as simple national interest based commentary.  Since most folks in the conservative group are in fact, Christian, we tend to overlook at the underlying themes of what they’re saying and instead focus on the areas that are demonstrably true.  We then distribute their information as worthy news rather than critically reviewing the positions being advocated.  Now here’s the beauty of all this; if anyone from the conservative camp throws a flag at what they are doing, they revert to the calling the objector a leftist since the majority of the opposition does come from the left based on anti-Christian activism thus allowing them to remain active with scant rebuke.

They are an interesting bunch and in many ways operate the same way as the hard left does to keep down dissent.
  
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qrayjack
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Re: Can We Ban Islam?
Reply #5 - 10/01/10 at 19:59:04
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The problem is not bias against Islam, the problem is Islam.

Islam could take many steps to allay the fears and anger of the non-Muslim world, like not building a victory mosque at ground zero, but it doesn't does it?

It should be no surprise that the tactics and responses of Islam and the American left are similar since they are so closely allied, but some of those similarities are quite obvous. Like victimhood for example.

When confronted and challenged, they both portray themselves as victims, unfairly and arbitrarily attacked by forces of bigotry and ignorance. 'Why what on earth has lil' ol' innocent me done to deserve such awful treatment?'

Answer? Preach and practice hate for one thing.
  
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osceola
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Re: Can We Ban Islam?
Reply #6 - 10/01/10 at 22:51:37
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What our Founding Fathers did see was people that would want to subvert our Nation. What they did not see was that we would elect people so weak or corrupt that used our Constitution against us.

Communism, Marxism, socialism, progressism are 180 degrees against our Constitution. This is why they want to get rid of it.

,Islam is no doubt completly against our constitution. This is why the Leftist and the Islamist are now arm in arm..destroy the Constitution of the United States of America.

Communism and all the other words they call themselves and Islam should be outlawed in the United States of America because they are opposed to our Constitution.

Anyone believing in these should be barred from holding office.

  

Never approach a Bull from the front, a Horse from the rear, or a Fool from any direction.
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intj
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Re: Can We Ban Islam?
Reply #7 - 10/01/10 at 22:56:48
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Islam could take many steps to allay the fears and anger of the non-Muslim world, like not building a victory mosque at ground zero, but it doesn't does it?


Islam can't do anything. Islam is a belief system, not an organism. Islam is not building a mosque. A bunch of morons that want to stir things up are building a mosque. They are muslims. There are also muslims calling them morons that want to stir things up.
  
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qrayjack
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Re: Can We Ban Islam?
Reply #8 - 10/02/10 at 13:10:03
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Islam is not building a mosque.


Really? Ah. So it's the Downtown Freewill Consolidated Blessed Covenant 1st Almalgomated Baptist Church? Funny, they don't normally build mosques.

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Islam can't do anything.
 

That would certainly be nice, but again, it wasn't the above mentioned Baptist church that murdered 3000 people, destroyed the World Trade Center, 4 airliners full of people and part of the Pentagon on 9/11.

Not bad for the Great Peaceful Religion of Islam that 'can't do anything.'
  
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jpatrickham
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Re: Can We Ban Islam?
Reply #9 - 10/02/10 at 13:34:02
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Islam’s Invasion Ideology
.
Friday, 01 October 2010 06:19 Martel Sobieski

In the same way that a fake $100 bill is not legitimate currency, Islam is a counterfeit religion and therefore does not qualify for first amendment status. It is extremely incorrect to categorize Islam as a religion when its core literature and bloody track record prove a thousand times over that it is an -- Invasion ideology, a shrewd and cunning predator -- disguising itself as a religion.

Irrefutable evidence proves Islam to be a “wolf in sheep’s clothing” and a “Trojan horse” hell bent upon destroying all religions and nations worldwide. This irrefutable evidence is a book called the Koran where Allah commands that all Muslims must wage Jihad until the entire world and every single person is either converted to Islam, enslaved, murdered, tortured or abused.

“Fight them until all opposition ends, and all submit to Allah” (Koran: 8:39)

The Koran is a Manual of War
It is an error for anyone to call Islam a religion, but for those who insist, it’s best referred to as a “Religion of War” that has arrived on our shore as an enemy invader for the sole purpose of conquering our nation. This point cannot be overemphasized.

The Koran vows to vanquish all religions and nations worldwide.  Allah himself is the protagonist who relishes the role of a “hit man” vowing to knock off every person who rejects Islam -- sending them to burn in everlasting hell.  For Allah, there is nothing more heinous and loathsome than those infidels (non-believers) who refuse to convert, and there is nothing he will not do to eradicate them.

“I will terrorize the unbelievers. Therefore, smite them on their necks and every joint and incapacitate them. Strike off their heads and cut off their fingers and toes.” (Koran 8:12)

 “Allah wished to confirm the truth by his words: Wipe the infidels out to the last.” (Koran: 8:7)

Read the Koran for Yourself

http://www.rightsidenews.com/2010100111804/editorial/rsn-pick-of-the-day/islams-...

When I was young my best friend was a boy from Germany, his father was a Nazi SS Trooper. His Father didn't speak English, he was the scariest looking man I could remember. I also once had a pet scorpion, it was a favorite pet of mine, didn't try to pet it though because as sure a sin he would have bitten me.

Us two boys were going to fight WWII when we grew up, me for the US, and he for Germany. We didn't know that the war was over in 1858. My point is that War has been perpetual since 1900, and just because you like something doesn't make it safe.

That is something we all will have to think about as the days, weeks, and Months go by. I believe, that is just about all the time we have left.
  
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