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GringoBob
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The Ratification Debate - Part One
07/04/11 at 07:09:04
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  by Dr. Robert Owens

Was the Constitution the first document produced to form the United States of America?  Does it mark the beginning of our nation and its government?

No, before there was a Constitution there was a United States of America.  This nation was not formed under the auspices of the Constitution the Constitution was formed under the Auspices of the United States.

Years before there was a Constitution there were the Articles of Confederation and it was at the final ratification of this document that the United States of America officially was born.  This often over-looked and much maligned document was drafted in 1777 by the same Continental Congress that passed and proclaimed the Declaration of Independence.  The Articles acknowledged the inherent sovereignty of the constituent States while at the same time establishing a league of friendship and perpetual union .......................

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Re: The Ratification Debate - Part One
Reply #1 - 07/11/11 at 16:59:35
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GringoBob wrote on 07/04/11 at 07:09:04:
http://www.next2cents.com/RobertOwens.jpg  by Dr. Robert Owens

Was the Constitution the first document produced to form the United States of America?  Does it mark the beginning of our nation and its government?

No, before there was a Constitution there was a United States of America.  This nation was not formed under the auspices of the Constitution the Constitution was formed under the Auspices of the United States.

Years before there was a Constitution there were the Articles of Confederation and it was at the final ratification of this document that the United States of America officially was born.  This often over-looked and much maligned document was drafted in 1777 by the same Continental Congress that passed and proclaimed the Declaration of Independence.  The Articles acknowledged the inherent sovereignty of the constituent States while at the same time establishing a league of friendship and perpetual union .......................

and here is our Next 2 Cents  -   http://www.next2cents.com/04jul11.php



Owens is as full of crap as a stuffed turkey.
  

Our Bill of Rights constitutes a cluster of little foxholes of liberty ground into the hard cold face of history by helpless men for a shield against the lash of tyrants. They are the result of distrust of power and distrust of men in power. They are a recognition of Lord Acton's statement of a truth eternal--"power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely."R. CARTER PITTMAN&&Dalton, Ga., Sept. 28, 1955.DRAFT JAN MORGAN FOR PRESIDENT!
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GringoBob
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Re: The Ratification Debate - Part One
Reply #2 - 07/11/11 at 17:05:13
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a symptom or result of professorship I believe ?
  

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Re: The Ratification Debate - Part One
Reply #3 - 07/11/11 at 17:57:20
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GringoBob wrote on 07/11/11 at 17:05:13:
a symptom or result of professorship I believe ?



Probably both, Bob. A residual of the Lincoln Myth Keepers and their belief in what Lincoln said. He believed the Union was founded when the Continental Congress came into existence. It was the only precept he could muster to justify a states right, authority, or reason to secede. He knew, as Owens does, unless Owens is a complete imbecile, not ruled out completely at this point, each of the sovereign states meeting in convention ratified the Compact ( the Constitution ) thereby creating the federal government. The union did not create the states. The created can never be greater than the creator. The union was limited to specific and enumerated powers; all others being reserved to the people and/or the states. That partial sovereignty designated unto the federal government could be revoked at any time by the sovereign states, again meeting in conventions to de-ratify the Compact. The nation has become a Nation State and is no longer a Republic. Thank you, Dishonest Abe Lincoln.
  

Our Bill of Rights constitutes a cluster of little foxholes of liberty ground into the hard cold face of history by helpless men for a shield against the lash of tyrants. They are the result of distrust of power and distrust of men in power. They are a recognition of Lord Acton's statement of a truth eternal--"power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely."R. CARTER PITTMAN&&Dalton, Ga., Sept. 28, 1955.DRAFT JAN MORGAN FOR PRESIDENT!
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GringoBob
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Re: The Ratification Debate - Part One
Reply #4 - 07/11/11 at 18:19:36
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yep and with total accelleration when the progressives arrived with their Fabian socialism in the late 1800s and Wilson a few years later
  

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Re: The Ratification Debate - Part One
Reply #5 - 07/11/11 at 19:29:08
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GringoBob wrote on 07/11/11 at 18:19:36:
yep and with total accelleration when the progressives arrived with their Fabian socialism in the late 1800s and Wilson a few years later


Yes, that is true. Of course, John Maynard Keynes, was a Fabian socialist and pushed Democrats and Republicans into the poor financial state we now enjoy. Go all the way back to Hamilton, who advocated along with many of his peers, a form pf socialism at the corporatist level. Lincoln certainly did as well. Probably unknown by most is that Karl Marx sent Lincoln a congratulatory letter upon his re-election.
  

Our Bill of Rights constitutes a cluster of little foxholes of liberty ground into the hard cold face of history by helpless men for a shield against the lash of tyrants. They are the result of distrust of power and distrust of men in power. They are a recognition of Lord Acton's statement of a truth eternal--"power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely."R. CARTER PITTMAN&&Dalton, Ga., Sept. 28, 1955.DRAFT JAN MORGAN FOR PRESIDENT!
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GringoBob
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Re: The Ratification Debate - Part One
Reply #6 - 07/12/11 at 08:04:49
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just as Castro and Chavez sent Obama a congratulatory letter on his foisting thru Socialized Medicine - those guys DO stick together, till it's time to be in charge (of course)
  

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Re: The Ratification Debate - Part One
Reply #7 - 07/12/11 at 09:10:19
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GringoBob wrote on 07/12/11 at 08:04:49:
just as Castro and Chavez sent Obama a congratulatory letter on his foisting thru Socialized Medicine - those guys DO stick together, till it's time to be in charge (of course)



Of course. The difference, maybe only slight is many think of Obama as a socialist, but few do so of Lincoln and/or Hamilton.
  

Our Bill of Rights constitutes a cluster of little foxholes of liberty ground into the hard cold face of history by helpless men for a shield against the lash of tyrants. They are the result of distrust of power and distrust of men in power. They are a recognition of Lord Acton's statement of a truth eternal--"power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely."R. CARTER PITTMAN&&Dalton, Ga., Sept. 28, 1955.DRAFT JAN MORGAN FOR PRESIDENT!
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GringoBob
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Re: The Ratification Debate - Part One
Reply #8 - 07/12/11 at 09:19:18
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tis true
  

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