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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) The Powers of Congress. (Read 12,731 times)
Shooterman
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Re: The Powers of Congress.
Reply #20 - 04/29/12 at 10:54:12
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Bumpety-bumpety-bumpety-bump.

Dudester, where be you? Grin
  

Our Bill of Rights constitutes a cluster of little foxholes of liberty ground into the hard cold face of history by helpless men for a shield against the lash of tyrants. They are the result of distrust of power and distrust of men in power. They are a recognition of Lord Acton's statement of a truth eternal--"power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely."R. CARTER PITTMAN&&Dalton, Ga., Sept. 28, 1955.DRAFT JAN MORGAN FOR PRESIDENT!
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Re: The Powers of Congress.
Reply #21 - 04/29/12 at 11:39:55
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Shooterman: Sorry for my slow response, as I spent yesterday working and studying.

Congress does not have the power to interpret the constitution. They do, however, have the power to seek an amendment to the constitution that if voted on, has to be ratified by the states.

What you are asking about, I think, is a comment I made about how the USAPatriot Act is constitutional because we have to interpret the constitution in the context it was written. I did not say congress had that power, the court does. However, the USAPatriot Act does not violate anything in the constitution so long as law enforcement sticks to what it actually is supposed to do, which they have FOR THE MOST PART.

One mistake I made with the USAPatriot Act is that I stated there were warrantless searches. That is not true, there are no warrantless searches, but any district judge is now allowed to sign a warrant.

Shooterman, there is another point I'd like to make that is unrelated. You and I have some disagreements, but some agreements as well. I respect your opinion and your service to this country. I hope you know that. I may be a "Yankee" but I do have feelings  Grin
« Last Edit: 04/29/12 at 13:56:16 by »  
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Shooterman
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Re: The Powers of Congress.
Reply #22 - 04/29/12 at 15:13:43
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Shooterman: Sorry for my slow response, as I spent yesterday working and studying.

Congress does not have the power to interpret the constitution. They do, however, have the power to seek an amendment to the constitution that if voted on, has to be ratified by the states.

What you are asking about, I think, is a comment I made about how the USAPatriot Act is constitutional because we have to interpret the constitution in the context it was written. I did not say congress had that power, the court does. However, the USAPatriot Act does not violate anything in the constitution so long as law enforcement sticks to what it actually is supposed to do, which they have FOR THE MOST PART.

One mistake I made with the USAPatriot Act is that I stated there were warrantless searches. That is not true, there are no warrantless searches, but any district judge is now allowed to sign a warrant.

Shooterman, there is another point I'd like to make that is unrelated. You and I have some disagreements, but some agreements as well. I respect your opinion and your service to this country. I hope you know that. I may be a "Yankee" but I do have feelings Grin


Dude, Young Grasshopper, this was your comment that got the hackles up, not withstanding your inclination to associate me with Obama;

"we have to interpret the constitution in the context it was written. The forefathers intended for us to have rights, but they did not know about modern technology and radical islamic extremists. Our rights come from a higher power and not from government, yes. But Dr. Paul seems to believe that our rights come from governments long ago."

The comment, edited, of course from other comments, is fine so far.

Then you absolutely went bonkers by implying the Founders were somehow remiss because they did not know about modern technology and radical Islamist. ( not true as they were fully aware of radical Islamist, being students of history ) Somehow, we are supposed to believe because the Founders had not seen nuclear weapons, automatic firearms, ships that flew through the air, mechanized means of conveyance, rockets, or the plethora of new things even developed in my lifetime or even yours, they were somehow incapable of developing a system of governance that would stand the test of time. You, by inference, are suggesting the criminals, clowns, nincompoops, and anything goes characters that have infested our government, because they are 'MODERN' are somehow superior. Bah, nee DOUBLE BAH!

I want you to explain exactly what powers of Congress should be 'modernly interpreted' to make the US a better, safer, more prosperous place, and those freedoms we should be willing to give up to acquire a miniscule measure of additional security.

Keep in mind, Young Grasshopper, once given up, those freedoms are gone forever, or at least until the next group of tyrannically suppressed people rise up in rebellion.

Keep in mind, as well, Dude, that law enforcement is not supposed to just follow the law 'for the most part', but in its entirety. Anything less is criminal, as well as immoral.

Dude, do not tell me you respect my opinion at times and my service to the country, on one hand, and call me a liberal on the other. Do not lie about me and what I believe in and we can be at odds all day long with no animosity.
  

Our Bill of Rights constitutes a cluster of little foxholes of liberty ground into the hard cold face of history by helpless men for a shield against the lash of tyrants. They are the result of distrust of power and distrust of men in power. They are a recognition of Lord Acton's statement of a truth eternal--"power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely."R. CARTER PITTMAN&&Dalton, Ga., Sept. 28, 1955.DRAFT JAN MORGAN FOR PRESIDENT!
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duster
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Re: The Powers of Congress.
Reply #23 - 04/29/12 at 15:31:49
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Shooterman wrote on 04/29/12 at 15:13:43:
Dude, Young Grasshopper, this was your comment that got the hackles up, not withstanding your inclination to associate me with Obama;

"we have to interpret the constitution in the context it was written. The forefathers intended for us to have rights, but they did not know about modern technology and radical islamic extremists. Our rights come from a higher power and not from government, yes. But Dr. Paul seems to believe that our rights come from governments long ago."

The comment, edited, of course from other comments, is fine so far.

Then you absolutely went bonkers by implying the Founders were somehow remiss because they did not know about modern technology and radical Islamist. ( not true as they were fully aware of radical Islamist, being students of history ) Somehow, we are supposed to believe because the Founders had not seen nuclear weapons, automatic firearms, ships that flew through the air, mechanized means of conveyance, rockets, or the plethora of new things even developed in my lifetime or even yours, they were somehow incapable of developing a system of governance that would stand the test of time. You, by inference, are suggesting the criminals, clowns, nincompoops, and anything goes characters that have infested our government, because they are 'MODERN' are somehow superior. Bah, nee DOUBLE BAH!

I want you to explain exactly what powers of Congress should be 'modernly interpreted' to make the US a better, safer, more prosperous place, and those freedoms we should be willing to give up to acquire a miniscule measure of additional security.

Keep in mind, Young Grasshopper, once given up, those freedoms are gone forever, or at least until the next group of tyrannically suppressed people rise up in rebellion.

Keep in mind, as well, Dude, that law enforcement is not supposed to just follow the law 'for the most part', but in its entirety. Anything less is criminal, as well as immoral.

Dude, do not tell me you respect my opinion at times and my service to the country, on one hand, and call me a liberal on the other. Do not lie about me and what I believe in and we can be at odds all day long with no animosity.

As for Islamic extremists;
Refer to the Barbary pirates.

The US constitution is the only one in human history that considers human nature. That is the primary reason such a high standard of living developed here.  Not because of anything the government did, but rather because it did very little.
  

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Re: The Powers of Congress.
Reply #24 - 04/29/12 at 15:38:56
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Shooterman wrote on 04/29/12 at 15:13:43:
Dude, Young Grasshopper, this was your comment that got the hackles up, not withstanding your inclination to associate me with Obama;

"we have to interpret the constitution in the context it was written. The forefathers intended for us to have rights, but they did not know about modern technology and radical islamic extremists. Our rights come from a higher power and not from government, yes. But Dr. Paul seems to believe that our rights come from governments long ago."

The comment, edited, of course from other comments, is fine so far.

Then you absolutely went bonkers by implying the Founders were somehow remiss because they did not know about modern technology and radical Islamist. ( not true as they were fully aware of radical Islamist, being students of history ) Somehow, we are supposed to believe because the Founders had not seen nuclear weapons, automatic firearms, ships that flew through the air, mechanized means of conveyance, rockets, or the plethora of new things even developed in my lifetime or even yours, they were somehow incapable of developing a system of governance that would stand the test of time. You, by inference, are suggesting the criminals, clowns, nincompoops, and anything goes characters that have infested our government, because they are 'MODERN' are somehow superior. Bah, nee DOUBLE BAH!

I want you to explain exactly what powers of Congress should be 'modernly interpreted' to make the US a better, safer, more prosperous place, and those freedoms we should be willing to give up to acquire a miniscule measure of additional security.

Keep in mind, Young Grasshopper, once given up, those freedoms are gone forever, or at least until the next group of tyrannically suppressed people rise up in rebellion.

Keep in mind, as well, Dude, that law enforcement is not supposed to just follow the law 'for the most part', but in its entirety. Anything less is criminal, as well as immoral.

Dude, do not tell me you respect my opinion at times and my service to the country, on one hand, and call me a liberal on the other. Do not lie about me and what I believe in and we can be at odds all day long with no animosity.


First of all, I am sincerely sorry for calling you a liberal. It was wrong of me and I am sorry.

The constitution gives congress the right to pass legislation, power to declare war, power of the purse etc. Our society has evolved into one in which the President is supposed to lead on these issues because he/she is the leader of the free world, like it or not, that is what our society has become.

As far as my quote is concerned, the constitution must be interpreted directly, but also we must remember when it was written. It set guidelines for our nation; freedom of speech, right to bear arms, rights of individual states, right to trial, freedom FROM government, and more. There is nothing in the constitution about privacy rights, yet there is an implied right to privacy that various courts have upheld. The point is, interpret the constitution when writing laws, but also realize it was written in 1776; for example, women deserve the same rights as men, blacks deserve the same rights as whites, and the federal government has a right to obtain a warrant to wiretap phones.
  
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duster
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Re: The Powers of Congress.
Reply #25 - 04/29/12 at 15:42:58
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First of all, I am sincerely sorry for calling you a liberal. It was wrong of me and I am sorry.

The constitution gives congress the right to pass legislation, power to declare war, power of the purse etc. Our society has evolved into one in which the President is supposed to lead on these issues because he/she is the leader of the free world, like it or not, that is what our society has become.

As far as my quote is concerned, the constitution must be interpreted directly, but also we must remember when it was written. It set guidelines for our nation; freedom of speech, right to bear arms, rights of individual states, right to trial, freedom FROM government, and more. There is nothing in the constitution about privacy rights, yet there is an implied right to privacy that various courts have upheld. The point is, interpret the constitution when writing laws, but also realize it was written in 1776; for example, women deserve the same rights as men, blacks deserve the same rights as whites, and the federal government has a  right to obtain a warrant to wiretap phones.

governments don't have rights, they have powers.
  

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Shooterman
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Re: The Powers of Congress.
Reply #26 - 04/29/12 at 15:54:48
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duster wrote on 04/29/12 at 15:31:49:
As for Islamic extremists;
Refer to the Barbary pirates.

The US constitution is the only one in human history that considers human nature. That is the primary reason such a high standard of living developed here. Not because of anything the government did, but rather because it did very little.


Absolutely.
  

Our Bill of Rights constitutes a cluster of little foxholes of liberty ground into the hard cold face of history by helpless men for a shield against the lash of tyrants. They are the result of distrust of power and distrust of men in power. They are a recognition of Lord Acton's statement of a truth eternal--"power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely."R. CARTER PITTMAN&&Dalton, Ga., Sept. 28, 1955.DRAFT JAN MORGAN FOR PRESIDENT!
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duster
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Re: The Powers of Congress.
Reply #27 - 04/29/12 at 15:57:31
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Shooterman wrote on 04/29/12 at 15:54:48:
Absolutely.

Shooter,   
If they ever decide to write a new constitution, you and I need to be on that committee.
  

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Shooterman
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Re: The Powers of Congress.
Reply #28 - 04/29/12 at 16:38:59
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First of all, I am sincerely sorry for calling you a liberal. It was wrong of me and I am sorry.


Apology accepted.

Quote:
The constitution gives congress the right to pass legislation, power to declare war, power of the purse etc.


The Constitution does no such thing. The Constitution, as the legally binding Compact between the states, each having met in convention and ratified the said Constitution, and thereby entering into an agreement with the other states, enumerates powers and duties the Congress has. Outside of those constitutional enumerations, ( which, BTW, everyone at the time of the Constitutional Convention understood could be withdrawn from ) the Congress has no powers and certainly no rights, as government has not one scintilla of a right to do anything.

Quote:
Our society has evolved into one in which the President is supposed to lead on these issues because he/she is the leader of the free world, like it or not, that is what our society has become.


Well, Young Grasshopper, like it or not, the Constitution also enumerates ( grants ) certain duties and powers unto the President. If he oversteps those boundaries, he is a criminal, should be removed, tried, and if convicted, at least sent to jail if not hung for treason.

Quote:
As far as my quote is concerned, the constitution must be interpreted directly, but also we must remember when it was written. It set guidelines for our nation;


Please Dude, don't go into law. The Constitution sets no guidelines; it directly enumerates duties and powers. Most are declaratory and restrictive; i.e. they specifically outline duties and/or powers, or declare duties and/or powers where the Congress has absolutely no jurisdiction. This also applies to the duties of the President, the SCOTUS, and the Fourth Branch of a republican government, the states. The States and/or the people are enumerated to possess ALL powers not given unto the Congress or government, if you prefer

Quote:
freedom of speech, right to bear arms, rights of individual states, right to trial, freedom FROM government, and more.


All rights and freedoms of the people, and has absolutely nothing to do with the government, except to restrict the government from encroaching on the rights and freedoms of the people.

Quote:
There is nothing in the constitution about privacy rights, yet there is an implied right to privacy that various courts have upheld.


Simply not so. Read the Third, Fourth, and Ninth Amendments.

Quote:
The point is, interpret the constitution when writing laws, but also realize it was written in 1776; for example, women deserve the same rights as men, blacks deserve the same rights as whites, and the federal government has a right to obtain a warrant to wiretap phones.


Dude, Dude, Dude. Blacks were given their freedom by the Thirteenth Amendment. Civil Right laws were unconstitutional. Brown vs Board of Ed was based on 'modern authority', ( hello, here we go again ) women were given suffrage by the Nineteenth Amendment.

The Federal Government has an obligation, not a right to obtain a warrant. Obligation, Dude, obligation. Any agent breaking the law by writing his own warrants should go to prison. It is that simple.

Develop a teachable spirit, Dude, else you'll become just another shyster. Better yet, shovel crap for a living. Basically shysters do that.

I am not being unkind about that as I've even done some of it. Smiley

As I use to tell folks, it may be crap to you, but it is my bread and butter. Smiley
  

Our Bill of Rights constitutes a cluster of little foxholes of liberty ground into the hard cold face of history by helpless men for a shield against the lash of tyrants. They are the result of distrust of power and distrust of men in power. They are a recognition of Lord Acton's statement of a truth eternal--"power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely."R. CARTER PITTMAN&&Dalton, Ga., Sept. 28, 1955.DRAFT JAN MORGAN FOR PRESIDENT!
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gabriel
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Re: The Powers of Congress.
Reply #29 - 04/29/12 at 19:33:10
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duster wrote on 04/29/12 at 15:57:31:
Shooter,
If they ever decide to write a new constitution, you and I need to be on that committee.


Any Constitution that can be writen will eventually be corrupted.  The Constitution we have is fine, we just need for people to pay attention to it.
  
"I have one great fear in my heart, that one day when they have turned to loving, they will find we are turned to hating."
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