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Conservative's ForumConservative's Discussion ForumsConstitutional Issues › What is most important.  1st Amendment or 2nd?
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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) What is most important.  1st Amendment or 2nd? (Read 4,152 times)
Dave
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What is most important.  1st Amendment or 2nd?
05/15/13 at 16:44:37
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The media finally gets its comeuppance.  They were all complicit in denigrating law abiding citizens when we defended our 2nd Amendment rights and saying the most outrageous things about gun owners - knowing they were outright lies.  Every media pundit raged about the children being killed and gun control was the only answer.  That was an outright lie and they knew it.  If they were concerned about saving children they would have raged about abortions that kill thousands of innocent babies every month.  They all took their talking points from Obama puppet masters every morning, you could tell because every one of them said or wrote the exact same words.  They were vehemently and vociferously against the 2nd Amendment for a vast majority of citizens.

Fast forward to Saturday evening.  OMG, the Justice Department was wiretapping reporters from the AP.  Arguably the most dedicated media outlet for whatever Obama and his imps did or ever would do,  even though it was totally criminal.  But then they find out that they were targets of the most narcissistic and mentally unstable person to ever hold a position of power, Obama.  Yes, their idol, their Saviour and immaculate conception - and yes, I mean immaculate conception, because it was the media that created him.  A man with a nefarious past, no discernible talents, zero experience with  governing or business, and yet he was the messiah sent to save America from itself according to AP, ABC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, The New York Times, Washington Post, Boston Globe, Los Angeles Times, Times magazine, USA Today and I could name a dozen more but we all know who they are.  They created an immaculate man with no past and no future.  Until he came after them and their precious 1st Amendment.

What these moronic infantile's failed to realize is that out of all the Amendments sited in the Bill of Rights, the 2nd Amendment was the only one with the added emphasis - "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED" attached to it specifically.  There was a reason they did that.  The 2nd Amendment would, in time, defend all the others.  Without a 2nd Amendment there will be no other rights granted by government because there will be no way to defeat corrupt government malefactors.  Maybe now they will understand the passion of American Patriots who fight to defend our 2nd Amendment right because their precious 1st Amendment was usurped by their own creation.  Their own maculate marionette:  Obama.
  

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1goofball
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Re: What is most important.  1st Amendment or 2nd?
Reply #1 - 05/15/13 at 17:15:43
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....Amen....


tell it like it is Dave.

  

No matter which way the wind blows, I will stand behind Islam - Barry "the idiot" Obummer -This country is not a Christian nation! - Barack Insane Obummer - Liberalism works by manipulating the weak-minded through self-hatred.
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Naturalized-Texan
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Re: What is most important.  1st Amendment or 2nd?
Reply #2 - 05/15/13 at 17:43:06
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Dave: Excellent post.

Since Roe v. Wade an average of 3,425 babies are killed every DAY!
  

"Anthropogenic Global Warming/Climate Change is a massive POLITICAL hoax."
Naturalized-Texan, many times in the past 15 years

"Modern American liberalism, Mussolini's Fascism, and Hitler's Nazism all have their roots in Wilsonian Progressivism."
Naturalized-Texan, 1/7/2009

"The goal of all liberal programs is to produce ever-increasing numbers of poor and ignorant people dependent on government handouts."
Naturalized-Texan, many times in the past 15 years
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Naturalized-Texan
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Re: What is most important.  1st Amendment or 2nd?
Reply #3 - 05/15/13 at 17:47:27
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Dave: I saw a bumper sticker yesterday that stated:

"The 2nd Amendment: America's Original Homeland Security"
  

"Anthropogenic Global Warming/Climate Change is a massive POLITICAL hoax."
Naturalized-Texan, many times in the past 15 years

"Modern American liberalism, Mussolini's Fascism, and Hitler's Nazism all have their roots in Wilsonian Progressivism."
Naturalized-Texan, 1/7/2009

"The goal of all liberal programs is to produce ever-increasing numbers of poor and ignorant people dependent on government handouts."
Naturalized-Texan, many times in the past 15 years
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gabriel
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Re: What is most important.  1st Amendment or 2nd?
Reply #4 - 05/15/13 at 18:27:15
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Well said, Dave.

I've had this discussion with firends, and most do not understand it.
  

"I have one great fear in my heart, that one day when they have turned to loving, they will find we are turned to hating."
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BobDiaz
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Re: What is most important.  1st Amendment or 2nd?
Reply #5 - 05/16/13 at 01:21:49
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.


Benjamin Franklin felt if all his rights were taken away, but the First, he would use the First to win his right back, but that was then.   Today he'd be branded as a homophobia racist of the 1%.   Wink



Bob
  
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Re: What is most important.  1st Amendment or 2nd?
Reply #6 - 05/16/13 at 13:49:26
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Dave, I can't disagree with anything you wrote.  We (the people) see the Constitution as protecting us from tyranny by placing limitations on government power.  The government sees it as something that prevents them from accomplishing their social engineering goals.  Over time the Constitution and Bill of Rights has been modified by congress and by the courts, slowly shifting away from what was intended by the founders.  

Until lately, the elected executive has recognized the constitutional limitations on government, and governed (mostly) accordingly.  Now we have an elected executive who actively bypasses the constitution, as well as congress, in total disregard for legal precedent or potential consequences.  He consistently governs against the will of the people and if he gets away with it, lays the foundation for further abuse in the future by like-minded politicians, both "R" and "D".  Instead of asking his advisors, "Can we do that?", our president now commands his staff to "Find a way around that."

Remember his promise in the 2008 elections, that he will "Fundamentally change the United States."  Now we are seeing exactly what he meant by that, although some of us were able to predict exactly what is now occurring.  

As for the Second Amendment protecting the rest of the Constitution, I totally agree.  My question is; what form will that take?  Individuals or small groups acting independently, or do we need a trusted, proven patriotic leader to step up and organize the "unorganized militia" on a national scale?  I've done some research on civilian resistance.  Most gun owners unless properly trained are loathe to kill fellow humans.  It ain't like the movies or TV.  Studies following WW2 revealed that most soldiers were hesitant to shoot at individual enemy, unless under direct supervision by an officer, or on a crew served weapon.  Gen. S.L.A. Marshal's work has come under fire after his death, but his work caused training methods to change after WW2, resulting in higher fire rates during the Korean and Vietnam wars, as well as those which followed.  

In our nation's history our security depended upon an organized militia and the military draft.  Able bodied males received military training as a matter of course.  It has been over a generation since we've had a draft, with fewer and fewer able-bodied males receiving military training, or showing  an interest in firearms in general.  Those who do show an interest in owning a firearm, for the most part focus on pistols for self defense.  

As to the legend about Admiral Yamamoto afraid to invade the US West Coast during WW2, because of "a rifle behind every blade of grass," that statement has never been documented.  It's one thing to shoot at animals, or paper targets which don't shoot back, but it is quite another to shoot at an enemy soldier who is intent on killing you before you can kill him.  During the American Revolution, fully 1/3 if the people were against the war, another 1/3 were British Loyalists, leaving only one third to fight colonial oppression.  

Would there be popular support for an armed revolution in modern America?  Would "Skip" or "Buffy" be willing to park their Beemer SUV, give up their daily double-skinny-latte, and all other creature comforts of modern life, to live and possibly die while crawling around in the dirt, not knowing where the next meal was coming from, and with little or no medical help for any wounds or injuries they may suffer?  Would the local plumber or electrician turn-tail and run when fired upon?  Maybe, maybe not.  How successful would a platoon or even company size militia unit, armed with (mostly) AR-15s be, going agains National Guard or Army forces with the aray of resources at their disposal?  It is a simple matter to boast of bravery in the "locker room," but quite another to demonstrate that under hostile fire.  

Lots to think about.

  

US Naval Aviation 1965-1969&&Retired Police Detective 1971-2001&&Life Member, N.R.A. / Member, SAF&&Sui Juris&&Cogito,Ergo Armatium Sum&&&&United States Constitution (c) 1791&&All Rights Reserved&&  
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Dave
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Re: What is most important.  1st Amendment or 2nd?
Reply #7 - 05/16/13 at 22:27:51
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Well Patriot, I have heard seen and felt the angst out here in the hinterlands and what I feel is that you will see common folks resisting federally mandated unconstitutional legislation in whatever way they can.  There are literally millions out here at the ready for whatever comes.  Obama's little private army will find the resistance so devastating that they will fold like cheap suits.  There are thousands upon thousands of shooters out here that can take out targets at incredible distances from positions that only they are familiar with.  Consider the tactical advantage of knowing the terrain and who is friend and foe.  That advantage will go to the masses.  A man protecting his family friends and property is a dangerous and cunning foe.  Our passion for freedom will endure whereas the paid insurgents will find themselves standing against the largest army on the face of the Earth.  No where else in the world can an army of millions be enlisted to a common cause like Americans fighting tyranny.  My greatest fear is the fact that while we are fighting treasonous Americans there are enemy factions throughout the world that will take advantage of civil war and attack America while our backs are turned in civil violence. 

I would hope that America wakes up to the corruption that is rotting the very core of America before it is irreversibly necessary to take up arms enmasse to repel treasonous and unscrupulous iconoclasts bent on our destruction.  But rest assured, when pressed, Americans will defend freedom and if that requires killing other human beings they will do so without hesitation.  I was 18 when sent to the jungles of Vietnam and had never shot at anything that wasn't on four legs.  It didn't take 30 seconds for me to realize my very survival depended on taking lives to save lives.  That realization will come to millions of Americans  in milliseconds  when they are backed into a corner to remain free.  It will be us or them.  I choose them.  So will millions of other Patriots.
  

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oldcoot
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Re: What is most important.  1st Amendment or 2nd?
Reply #8 - 05/17/13 at 20:54:47
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Two excellent posts, Dave!  A pleasure reading them!

The one thing I have to keep reminding myself of, is the fact our rights did NOT come from our government, but from our maker, whatever his name may be.
As a result, the government may NOT legislate away those rights--
although many commies/socialists believe they have the right.

But, as I note, there is nothing in the constitution that says communists, or socialists---or even the non-religious, have that right--or ability.

As the knights of old would say, "For God and country!"--
and the three musketeers, "One for all, and all for one!"

AMERICANS UNITE!

  

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."--Winston Churchill--
“The evil, that one endures patiently because it seems inevitable, becomes unbearable the moment its elimination becomes conceivable.”  Alexis De Tocqueville
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Re: What is most important.  1st Amendment or 2nd?
Reply #9 - 05/28/13 at 15:55:00
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Not sure if that was a question that you wanted answered.  As a Canadian we actually lack BOTH of these amendments in our "Charter of Rights and Freedoms" and Americans would be wise to understand how precious the rights of a nation are.  Sure we included "free speech" as a token suggestion, but it is restricted by the security apparatus, government and courts at their whim.  So you can freely speak negatively against one group and not another; lacking this freedom I would suggest the First Amendment is most vital.

Churchill summed up free speech (and dare I say the current state of Canada) quite eloquently in his famous Anti-Socialist speech in 1945:

"A Socialist State once thoroughly completed in all its details and its aspects – and that is what I am speaking of – could not afford to suffer opposition...No Socialist Government conducting the entire life and industry of the country could afford to allow free, sharp, or violently-worded expressions of public discontent. They would have to fall back on some form of Gestapo (bold is mine), no doubt very humanely directed in the first instance. And this would nip opinion in the bud; it would stop criticism as it reared its head, and it would gather all the power to the supreme party and the party leaders, rising like stately pinnacles above their vast bureaucracies of Civil servants, no longer servants and no longer civil."

What is most important to me is his comparison to this state and that of the Gestapo.  Unlike in America where your Constitution is the law of the land and vigorously protected by all, in Canada, the abuses of federal policing agencies such as the RCMP and CSIS has all but destroyed freedom in the form that some intended and all desire.
  
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