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mrwiseman-1
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Religion clarification
08/05/14 at 01:02:12
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Could you please clarify what you consider a "religious" discussion.
It is implied by your Religion post that your objections are to religious arguments. I believe that to be a reasonable requests in which one religion is pitted against each other between two members of the forum. Threads that dissolve purely into fights of "my religion is better than yours." are frustratingly monotonous.  I think that instead of "banning" that a request for civility and "agreeing to disagree" posted on troublesome threads would be less caustic to many a conservative disposition.

On the other hand if it is the complete censorship of any discussion with religious context (such as discussing founding father's religious beliefs, the separation of church and state issues, Middle Eastern contextual evaluation) I would say such a ban would be decidedly untenable...if not down right unreasonable. We live in a religious world, it would be impossible for many not to mention religion in the issues of the day.

I personally have responded to a post with a Biblical context. Would this be now banned? I did not argue.

Will the following topics no longer be allowed:

Educational bans on holidays/bibles/religious expression
Supreme Court rulings about religious objections to ACA
Muslim beliefs in a messiah effecting the leadership of Iran
The Pope (and political remarks)
Contraception
Abortion (religious grounds of opposition)
Evolution (Intelligent design)
American religious history (First and Second Great Awakenings, prayer, tax laws)
Civil rights movement
Religious leaders entering politics/commenting on political figures
Debate topics during the election on religious concepts.
Dietary changes to school districts due to immigrant populations
Holidays...etc.

I only list above to illustrate how unreasonably broad a ban on "religion" might become

I think your intentions are good, but too ill defined.
I do believe (as a conservative often does) that we humans are prone to devise too many laws. It becomes too easy to just "ban" religion rather than dealing with troublesome posters individually. I hope this is not the case here.
I will admit I am particularly sensitive to this right now. As an educator I am constantly told to put my faith on a shelf every time I enter a classroom...In a district where I work is fairly close to banning religious jewelry.
I worry when we try to protect people from offense. I will admit I have been offended a few times on this board. As a conservative I either disagreed respectfully or brushed it off.

I would hope others do the same.

Ban the arguments, sure, but not discussion with religious context.

I hope you will clarify your ban.

Respectfully submitted,
mrw







  
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Nyte_Byrd
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Re: Religion clarification
Reply #1 - 08/05/14 at 14:48:52
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mrwiseman-1 wrote on 08/05/14 at 01:02:12:
Could you please clarify what you consider a "religious" discussion.


I will try, but I think the existing post explains pretty much the gest of it.

http://www.conservativesforum.com/cgi-bin/conservatives-forum/YaBB.pl?num=122868...

It seems to have been understood by those who have been posting here for some time now.

mrwiseman-1 wrote on 08/05/14 at 01:02:12:
It is implied by your Religion post that your objections are to religious arguments.


That is correct, and that is why CF has long chosen not to have a religious forum.  It has always shown on other forums that such boards only invite circular conflict and ego inflated debate on both ends of the spectrum.  Neither has to do with God's Will nor proving anyone's superior intellect.  And none of the mods here are interested in intervening in such matters.  If anyone is interested in partaking in such useless banter, it can only be suggested they seek religious forums elsewhere.  We are not interested in giving reason to invite trollish atheists to attempt to sneak onto CF to counter religious specific posts.

mrwiseman-1 wrote on 08/05/14 at 01:02:12:

On the other hand if it is the complete censorship of any discussion with religious context (such as discussing founding father's religious beliefs, the separation of church and state issues, Middle Eastern contextual evaluation) I would say such a ban would be decidedly untenable...if not down right unreasonable.


Under such discussion, that would not be considered as 'religious debate' as previously explained and is expected and there is no ban on such discussion.  

mrwiseman-1 wrote on 08/05/14 at 01:02:12:
I personally have responded to a post with a Biblical context. Would this be now banned? I did not argue.


Again, no, however, it would not be expected that 'each and every' post be texted with only biblical content.  I would think most people feel just as capable to read the Bible and don't need someone who seems to think they are more qualified to quote passages who seem to think this is Sunday school or something.  We did have one poster who did that (on the Main News Forum) a few months ago and was not received too well.

mrwiseman-1 wrote on 08/05/14 at 01:02:12:
Will the following topics no longer be allowed:


(see previous post, couldn't fit contents)

We have had discussion on those topics with no problems.  As long as no offense is taken or discussion doesn't go offtrack to getting too personal.   I don't see a problem though.

As mods, the best is done to deal with any troublesome posters and do offer leeway as often as possible with the discussion.  Sometimes if too many complaints are made, some action is warranted.  I hope this at least helps understand to some degree of clarification.  

But to keep it simple, let's just say, CF is not interested in any personal religious debate of whether there is a God or there is not or providing proof of such or evidence there is not.  If anyone has ever witnessed those type debates on other forums, they already know, and ask themselves the question, who is the fool, the fool, or the one who follows.
« Last Edit: 08/05/14 at 16:29:22 by Nyte_Byrd »  


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mrwiseman-1
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Re: Religion clarification
Reply #2 - 08/05/14 at 19:02:07
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Your comments do help clarify. Thank you.

I must admit as a conservative that I still chafe at the idea of any "ban" on any speech. I am absolutely a fan of civility. I take comfort in the fact that you are offering leeway. I am a rule follower by nature, and don't wish to upset the works. If I find the rules to constricting I will just leave.

Quote:
Again, no, however, it would not be expected that 'each and every' post be texted with only biblical content.  I would think most people feel just as capable to read the Bible and don't need someone who seems to think they are more qualified to quote passages who seem to think this is Sunday school or something.  We did have one poster who did that (on the Main News Forum) a few months ago and was not received too well.


As much as I think it is probably pointless to constantly quote Bible verses at people, I think it is  equally silly for too may people to get into a snit about varied perspectives on the Bible.  In my case. I did not quote passages, but discussed a prophetic perspective on Syria. People can take it or leave it. I kind of like different perspectives on any issue in the news.

If you forgive me, I sense that the blame for the resistance to religious discussion is falling firmly on the religious. I suspect that when these "fights" (as I imagine them to be) were littered with posted punches from all sides (religious/agnostic/atheist). I hope anti-religious comments are as equally monitored.

Best Wishes,
mrw

  
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Nyte_Byrd
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Re: Religion clarification
Reply #3 - 08/05/14 at 22:00:09
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mrwiseman-1 wrote on 08/05/14 at 19:02:07:
Your comments do help clarify. Thank you.


I am glad.  You are welcome.

mrwiseman-1 wrote on 08/05/14 at 19:02:07:
I must admit as a conservative that I still chafe at the idea of any "ban" on any speech. I am absolutely a fan of civility. I take comfort in the fact that you are offering leeway. I am a rule follower by nature, and don't wish to upset the works. If I find the rules to constricting I will just leave.


As this is a privately owned forum, the admin does have the right to censor what he pleases, but I think all fairness is given as far as leeway and I hope the conditions provided are suitable for you to consider remaining a poster with us.

mrwiseman-1 wrote on 08/05/14 at 19:02:07:

If you forgive me, I sense that the blame for the resistance to religious discussion is falling firmly on the religious. I suspect that when these "fights" (as I imagine them to be) were littered with posted punches from all sides (religious/agnostic/atheist). I hope anti-religious comments are as equally monitored.


I can assure you the intent is not biased against the religious.  To be candid, it is probably more biased against those who come here just to post anti-religious jargon to be antagonistic.  It is with that reasoning that CF is not in favor of a religious themed board, to dissuade those who would come here with such intent.  And those who do, on rare occasion, make it that far to post such nonsense, do not have a very long stay here.  I guess I am just one who is more impressed in real life with those who 'show' me how they live their faith based lifestyles than those who spend all day on religion forums in heated debate.  I just don't see it as doing God's Will.  I see it those doing their 'own' will to feel their own ego inflated.  No winner, no loser.  As I said, futile circular debate, and it always ends the same way.  With hurt feelings.  The atheists or agnostics that do post here, and who have for some time, are courteous and respect the posters here, and they are given the same respect they show.

Again, I do hope you do choose to remain with us and offer whatever time you can in sharing postings with us.  Thanks again, for your understanding in this matter.  Smiley  If you ever with to discuss this on a more private level, feel free to PM me and I'll do what I can to see what I can to help if ever needed.
  


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mrwiseman-1
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Re: Religion clarification
Reply #4 - 08/07/14 at 00:53:04
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We are good! I am a good natured sort.

I have recovered from a rather bad illness and am glad to be back amongst my own Smiley Smiley

Best Wishes,
mrw
  
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