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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Vaccinations and the measles outbreak (Read 5,258 times)
TrentDBU
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Re: Vaccinations and the measles outbreak
Reply #30 - 02/08/15 at 13:08:28
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Moaneeca wrote on 02/08/15 at 12:14:18:
TrentDBU, I hear you on the “Requiring vaccines,” my issue really falls with where does it end? Who makes the decisions about which vaccines are necessary and which are not? I’ll go back to the Hepatitis B vaccine, it’s for a sexually transmitted disease, and is required to enter school. Is it right to expect parents to have their children vaccinated for that? I’m not so sure.

Honestly, my point is more to the history of government controlled agencies, and their ability to somehow grow those programs over time. Take the required (for school) diphtheria vaccine, there hasn’t been a case here in the United States in over fifty years, and still kids are receiving this vaccine why?

When we talk about giving government control over our lives in a, “Whatever they say,” or “I’m all in,” sort of way we have no idea what the future will hold for what ‘they’ determine is best for us and ours in the future. Fortunately for me one of our kids can make her own decisions, and the other isn’t too far away from being able to make those decisions too. Personally, I’m not too eager to have anyone dictate to me about all those boosters I’ll need, and can certainly understand a parent’s resistance to just take them at their word.



Hepatitis is a killer, and as for it being only a sexually transmitted disease, that's in part because of the vaccination program.  In areas where it's more prevalent still, it's transmitted by other forms of contact with body fluids, because it's significantly more infectious than HIV.  It can last in blood or other fluids outside the body for longer than HIV, and smaller doses are necessary for infection.  I see where parents get concerned about vaccination about STDs, but I'm not sure why.  Kids have sex, that's almost a sure thing these days, and I've heard people say that vaccinating against STDs can encourage sex, but I think that's fairly unlikely. 

Medicine grows, and as it grows, more vaccines become available.  We think of medicine as something that's been around for a long time, but really, vaccinations aren't that old in relative terms, so the growing you speak of really is medical science advancing to protect more.   An example, there are people working on vaccinations for malaria, AIDS is a possibility soon, as well as others.  When/If they're made, the vaccination program will "grow", but that's a result of medicine advancing to protect more. 

Parents should definitely be informed so they can make good choices, but they need to make sure they're being informed by the right people.  Dr. Wakefield and Dr. Hooker are quacks with agendas.   There's not much substance to the CDC informer claim, and I can't even find any substantiation that he's been given whistleblower status.   The report was reviewed by multiple outside sources before publication, and was reviewed by many afterwards.  When they went back and examined it after Dr. Thompson's claim, they found no statistical evidence of higher rates of autism in African Americans, it was attributed to things like children in special education (already having autism) needing the vaccination before joining school 

We continue to vaccinate for old diseases so that they don't come back.  Diptheria is gone in the US, but stop vaccinating and it can come back.   

As for pharmaceutical companies, liability, and profit, I'm mostly concerned with RINO's attempt to impose caps on civil liability.  The party line is "it helps small business" but the reality is that small business hardly ever has the sort of lawsuits that would hit the cap.   The cap is for large businesses that can end up with large classes of individuals they've hurt.  If caps go in place, liability for medical companies will fall well short of the harm inflicted.  That's where I have my concern.
  
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TrentDBU
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Re: Vaccinations and the measles outbreak
Reply #31 - 02/08/15 at 13:22:18
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Following up the profit angle, these medical companies want civil limitations on penalties for their own profit. 

Merck, for example, since it was mentioned, was the Vioxx manufacturer.  They've currently got 5 billion set aside for lawsuits from that failed drug, which is double what they made in profit. 

Medical companies do want to sell new drugs, that's a certainty, but they're very aware of liability in the drugs and with things like vaccinations, where the patient list is huge, their liability is also huge.    More than 100 million doses of the HPV vaccine Gardasil have been administered.  If that vaccination turns out to be medically unsound, the liability to the company could be utterly devastating.
  
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Moaneeca
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Re: Vaccinations and the measles outbreak
Reply #32 - 02/08/15 at 14:30:02
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FYI Drug companies have immunity from most lawsuits where there’s been injuries or deaths associated with vaccinations. Reaffirmed as late as 02/22/2011: “We hold that the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act preempts all design-defect claims against vaccine manufacturers brought by plaintiffs who seek compensation for injury or death caused by vaccine side effects,” wrote Justice Antonin Scalia in the majority decision. So, Gardasil won’t be a huge/deep concern for Merck, just as GlaxoSmithKline and Merck weren’t terribly hurt by the failure of the rotavirus vaccines they made.

Not all kids have sex, but kids shouldn’t be having sex. The subject really isn’t a one size fits all, and vaccines shouldn’t be either, but if I understand you correctly you’re comfortable leaving these decisions in the hands of our government agencies?

Hep B: For most children, the risk of a serious vaccine reaction may be 100 times greater than the risk of hepatitis B. Overall, the incidence of hepatitis B in the U.S. is currently about 4 per 100,000. The risk for most young children is far less; hepatitis B is heavily concentrated in groups at high risk due to occupation, sexual promiscuity, or drug abuse. VAERS contains 25,000 reports related to hepatitis B vaccine, about one-third of which were serious enough to lead to an emergency room visit, hospitalization, or death. It is often assumed that only 10% of reactions are reported. (This committee has heard testimony about persons being actively discouraged from reporting, even if they are aware of the reporting system.) Thus, if there have been some 80,000 serious adverse reactions associated with 20 million doses of vaccine, the risk is about 4 in 1000. http://www.aapsonline.org/testimony/hepbcom.htm

What we do know is the science really isn’t settled on this. We also know that our government has paid (as of March 2014) a considerable amount of money to patients severely injured by a litany of vaccines. Granted the percentage is small, unless of course it’s your kid being injured.

Real quick like … January 2013: Vaccine Court awards Millions to Two Children With Autism http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-kirby/post2468343_b_2468343.html

Again, the concerns I have where my kids are concerned are nearly out of my control, but I certainly understand that a parent just might have some serious worries where all of this is concerned. Where there’s smoke there’s usually fire, and there’s certainly a lot of smoke around this subject.

Just curious, have you had your Tetanus, diphtheria, pertussis, HPV (if you’re a female, but don’t worry there’s a male vaccine coming to a doctor near you soon), chickenpox, shingles (if you’re over 50), Measles, mumps, rubella, flu vaccine, Pneumococcal, hepatitis A (only if you’re sexually active of course), meningococcal boosters?

Seriously, we’ll need ObamaCare to pay for all of that! Thank God ObamaCare is including all of that for free right?




  
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cj_real_american
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Re: Vaccinations and the measles outbreak
Reply #33 - 02/08/15 at 14:40:17
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shingles 

I don't do flu or other vaccinations, but this is one I have been thinking of getting.  People I know are about 50/50 on this topic.  Shingles have been around forever so I wonder why the big hype now.  They aren't contagious so we can rule that out.  Yes, it could be the media and we just hear more about it, or----------------??  Your thoughts.
  

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Moaneeca
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Re: Vaccinations and the measles outbreak
Reply #34 - 02/08/15 at 15:05:45
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cj_real_american wrote on 02/08/15 at 14:40:17:
shingles  

I don't do flu or other vaccinations, but this is one I have been thinking of getting.  People I know are about 50/50 on this topic.  Shingles have been around forever so I wonder why the big hype now.  They aren't contagious so we can rule that out.  Yes, it could be the media and we just hear more about it, or----------------??  Your thoughts.


I think it's just that we pay more attention when they get in our own age range lol.

Here's a short article from the Mayo clinic about it: http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/shingles/expert-answers/shingles-v...

I had no idea that this is a live vaccine and, "Some people report a chickenpox-like rash after getting the shingles vaccine. Although some people will develop shingles despite vaccination, the vaccine may reduce the severity and duration of it."

I wonder why it's not recommended until you reach the age of 60, but is approved for 50 and over? When you go get yours will you let us know? Please!

  
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The Stranger
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Re: Vaccinations and the measles outbreak
Reply #35 - 02/08/15 at 16:18:17
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cj_real_american wrote on 02/08/15 at 14:40:17:
shingles  

I don't do flu or other vaccinations, but this is one I have been thinking of getting.  People I know are about 50/50 on this topic.  Shingles have been around forever so I wonder why the big hype now.  They aren't contagious so we can rule that out.  Yes, it could be the media and we just hear more about it, or----------------??  Your thoughts.

Strange you mention the flu shot, this is the first year since my MI in 2000 I haven't had one and I have been laid up for going on two weeks now with the worse flue in my entire life.
  

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Moaneeca
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Re: Vaccinations and the measles outbreak
Reply #36 - 02/08/15 at 17:11:33
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The Stranger wrote on 02/08/15 at 16:18:17:
Strange you mention the flu shot, this is the first year since my MI in 2000 I haven't had one and I have been laid up for going on two weeks now with the worse flue in my entire life.


I get the flu shot because it seems to run rampant in the nursing home where my Gram resides (even though they all get the shot?), anyway ... this year it's been publicized like crazy that the shot doesn't match the flu. In other words, this year's wouldn't have helped anyway.
  
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cj_real_american
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Re: Vaccinations and the measles outbreak
Reply #37 - 02/08/15 at 21:19:44
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I wonder why it's not recommended until you reach the age of 60, but is approved for 50 and over? When you go get yours will you let us know? Please!  

Don't count too fast there.  Not sure if I ever will after reading the link you gave Moaneeca.  If you've had them you can still get the vaccine, and if you get it, it doesn't mean you won't get shingles.  Hmmm, and then it says that Medicare and some Insurance company's may not carry them.  If it's so dang important you'd think the vaccine would be covered.  Now I'm really fused.   Undecided
  

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Big Steve
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Re: Vaccinations and the measles outbreak
Reply #38 - 02/08/15 at 23:13:15
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Herpes Zoster, which we mostly all have in our bodies, only grows on inflamed nerves especially between the ribs although sometimes other places.  The key thing is to keep your joints moveable and pliable to minimize the infection getting a start. Smiley
  
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Moaneeca
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Re: Vaccinations and the measles outbreak
Reply #39 - 02/09/15 at 01:42:35
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cj_real_american wrote on 02/08/15 at 21:19:44:
I wonder why it's not recommended until you reach the age of 60, but is approved for 50 and over? When you go get yours will you let us know? Please!  

Don't count too fast there.  Not sure if I ever will after reading the link you gave Moaneeca.  If you've had them you can still get the vaccine, and if you get it, it doesn't mean you won't get shingles.  Hmmm, and then it says that Medicare and some Insurance company's may not carry them.  If it's so dang important you'd think the vaccine would be covered.  Now I'm really fused.   Undecided


It's a conundrum.  Wink
  
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