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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Gorsuch to hear Church-State case. (Read 1,560 times)
The Stranger
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Re: Gorsuch to hear Church-State case.
Reply #10 - 04/17/17 at 07:36:20
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killermccoy wrote on 04/17/17 at 07:14:46:
What parts of Christianity do you want taught, which interpretation of it?  Each faith within Christianity has slightly different versions.  Jefferson was against big religion of more specifically the Anglican Church of England which force fed one set of ideals.

I don't want my son to be taught that God literally made Earth in 7 days and that man walked with dinosaurs.  I don't want my son taught that Adam and Eve simply ate an apple, I do not want my son being taught that Mary is a deity or any other saint should be prayed to and I don't want my son taught that there is a pre tribulation rapture.

Everything I just mentioned is doctrine in different evangelical and Catholic churches.  It would come down to who controls the local school board and that would become organized religion.

The 10 Commandments are universal and school prayer is about as close as you are going to get in public school to be allowed.

I think most can agree with ya.
Most or at least me are more concerned with a Cross, Manger or a simple prayer in a Government building. That in no way is sponsoring religion it's about MY FREEDOM to say a Prayer before an event on Public Property.
  

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Re: Gorsuch to hear Church-State case.
Reply #11 - 04/17/17 at 08:44:35
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muffin wrote on 04/16/17 at 22:12:56:
.....how will he rule. We clearly have laws to separate Church and State, no public money should go to churches for playgrounds.  Churches need to raise money through church activities and donations.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/supreme-court-gorsuch-set-hear-church-s...



This case is not about the Separation of Church and State, and actually about state sponsored discrimination.  The State of Missouri offered a program that provided crushed tires for the playgrounds of public and private schools.   Trinity Lutheran Church of Columbia is a church that also runs an accredited private Christian academy.  When they applied to be included in the crushed tire program, their application was denied based on the separation of church and state.  Yet, this is not about holding a prayer service, or teaching religion to a group of people that might not believe in it's teachings.  This is about making their playgrounds safer.  If the program is open for some liberal based private school, then it should be also open to a Christian academy.  To exclude them is discriminatory.  The state of Missouri does not exempt religious academies from having to be accredited.  So, why exclude them from getting crushed tires for their playground?

This should be a cut and dried case, but liberal have been mudding the process for years with their brand of absolute separation of church and state.  Our Founding Fathers intended to protect our government from being controlled by any specific religious group.  You might remember that Europe was controlled by the Catholics at the time.  They wanted this country to be open to all religions, but that does not mean that the government could not recognize the existence of religion, or even God for that matter.  The liberals perversion of the Separation of Church and State is designed for one purpose.  To eventually outlaw all religion.  So, they have muddied the concept of the Separation to the point where a private Christian academy can not get free crushed tires for their playground. 

This is a good example why it was imperative that the GOP won this Presidential Election.
  

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Re: Gorsuch to hear Church-State case.
Reply #12 - 04/17/17 at 09:03:23
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     Good read Marine..

More on scotus...
  

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Re: Gorsuch to hear Church-State case.
Reply #13 - 04/17/17 at 09:32:03
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Ms. Daisy wrote on 04/16/17 at 23:17:46:
Church and State isn't a cut and dry issue for me. I want Christianity and even parts of Judaism (the old testimate) to be taught and encouraged by public schools, as everywhere else. I do not believe that though about all religions. I don't want public schools teaching about Islam or any other false religions. I have stated in the past that I believe that America is a Christian nation, and her citizens are free to worship the God of Abraham in any way they would like, as long as it is the One True God of Abraham. I whole heartedly believe that was our founders intent.


Would you be comfortable with the school requiring your kids attend a Koran Class?  Or a class on the Torah?  Or the Tripitaka?  Maybe you would prefer they pray to Shiva?  Even if they limit themselves to the Christian faith, what denomination would you have them teach?  Mormon, Catholic, Baptist, Methodist, Episcopalian?  Evangelical or non-Evangelical?   

The fact is that schools, with the obvious exception of religious academies, should not be in the business of teaching or promoting religion.  You can teach religious values without teaching the actual religion.  The job of teaching and promoting religion is that of the parents and the churches they attend.  The Constitution was worded as it is for a reason:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

If religion is taught in our public schools then it would be promoting, or establishing, a religion.  In order to get away from that, they would have to be all inclusive.  Can you imagine a Baptist student asking his pastor about the Pope, because that is what they were taught in school.  Or a Catholic student asking about being born again?  It would create more confusion within the developing minds, and could lead to a strong Christian student turning away from God. 

No, I say leave the teaching of religion to the Parents and the Church.  When it comes to evolution, you teach them about Creationism and Divine Selection.  That way they have all the information to choose for themselves.
  

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Re: Gorsuch to hear Church-State case.
Reply #14 - 04/17/17 at 12:23:27
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Bible study should be mandatory curriculum. Every student who graduates should be familiar with the old and new testament and have the ability to quote scripture.
  
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Re: Gorsuch to hear Church-State case.
Reply #15 - 04/17/17 at 12:37:09
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killermccoy wrote on 04/17/17 at 07:14:46:
What parts of Christianity do you want taught, which interpretation of it?  Each faith within Christianity has slightly different versions.  Jefferson was against big religion of more specifically the Anglican Church of England which force fed one set of ideals.

I don't want my son to be taught that God literally made Earth in 7 days and that man walked with dinosaurs.  I don't want my son taught that Adam and Eve simply ate an apple, I do not want my son being taught that Mary is a deity or any other saint should be prayed to and I don't want my son taught that there is a pre tribulation rapture.

Everything I just mentioned is doctrine in different evangelical and Catholic churches.  It would come down to who controls the local school board and that would become organized religion.

The 10 Commandments are universal and school prayer is about as close as you are going to get in public school to be allowed.


Well, for one evolution should not be taught. I'm sorry to hear you have doubts about HIS creation of Adam and Eve and the Garden of Eden but the holy word is never wrong. The belief that HE made the world and all creation in 7 days is subjective to how you interpret the old translation of day. Schools absolutely should teach that the world is not millions of years old however as that has been debunked, it is at most 5 thousand.

As for either I think Islam should be taught in school as well. I already answered that in my original post.

This is a Christian nation, founded by Christians for Christians who are free to practice Christianity in any denomination they like. In fact I may go so far to suggest that Muslims can not be real American citizens as they are opposed to Christianity and worship its adversary Allah, the moon god Satan.
  
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Re: Gorsuch to hear Church-State case.
Reply #16 - 04/17/17 at 14:27:04
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Ms. Daisy wrote on 04/17/17 at 12:37:09:
Well, for one evolution should not be taught. I'm sorry to hear you have doubts about HIS creation of Adam and Eve and the Garden of Eden but the holy word is never wrong. The belief that HE made the world and all creation in 7 days is subjective to how you interpret the old translation of day. Schools absolutely should teach that the world is not millions of years old however as that has been debunked, it is at most 5 thousand.

As for either I think Islam should be taught in school as well. I already answered that in my original post.

This is a Christian nation, founded by Christians for Christians who are free to practice Christianity in any denomination they like. In fact I may go so far to suggest that Muslims can not be real American citizens as they are opposed to Christianity and worship its adversary Allah, the moon god Satan.


I am not a supporter of evolution but all I can say is wow....on the world only being 5,000 years old.

I do believe in Adam and Eve and the Garden of Eden but I do not believe in the simple act of eating an apple.

I can assure you, I do not want your beliefs anywhere near my son or anyone's child.  The fact that you want it mandatory just makes you a tyrant of another strife and there are those within the Christian community are as much of a threat to individual freedom and liberty as a Communist is.
  
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Re: Gorsuch to hear Church-State case.
Reply #17 - 04/17/17 at 14:49:49
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killermccoy wrote on 04/17/17 at 14:27:04:
I am not a supporter of evolution but all I can say is wow....on the world only being 5,000 years old.

I do believe in Adam and Eve and the Garden of Eden but I do not believe in the simple act of eating an apple.

I can assure you, I do not want your beliefs anywhere near my son or anyone's child.  The fact that you want it mandatory just makes you a tyrant of another strife and there are those within the Christian community are as much of a threat to individual freedom and liberty as a Communist is.


Well, I will say, I don't appreciate being called a tyrant. I simply want God's word to spread and be heard loud from the mountain tops. It is in HIS good word that may save our children from immorality. Pur children must 've equipped with at least the knowledge of HIS good word. It is my belief that the holy scripture is the cure for the illness that has stricken this newest generation. Instead of Jesus our children are fed sex, violence and depravity. We sit here and wonder why violent crime among youth is at an all time high. Could it be because the schools have turned their backs on Jesus? I believe it may well be. Our children need direction and morals and there is no better book on that than the good book, HIS holy word, the scriptures and the testaments to HIS risen son Jesus Christ.
  
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Re: Gorsuch to hear Church-State case.
Reply #18 - 04/17/17 at 14:55:37
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Ms. Daisy wrote on 04/17/17 at 14:49:49:
Well, I will say, I don't appreciate being called a tyrant. I simply want God's word to spread and be heard loud from the mountain tops. It is in HIS good word that may save our children from immorality. Pur children must 've equipped with at least the knowledge of HIS good word. It is my belief that the holy scripture is the cure for the illness that has stricken this newest generation. Instead of Jesus our children are fed sex, violence and depravity. We sit here and wonder why violent crime among youth is at an all time high. Could it be because the schools have turned their backs on Jesus? I believe it may well be. Our children need direction and morals and there is no better book on that than the good book, HIS holy word, the scriptures and the testaments to HIS risen son Jesus Christ.


What if people refuse to go to bible class and you start getting protests?
  
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Re: Gorsuch to hear Church-State case.
Reply #19 - 04/17/17 at 15:04:15
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The Stranger wrote on 04/17/17 at 06:20:11:
There is no such thing as separation of church and state, it's made up. The constitution says.
Here is where it comes from.

I was about to post the same thing but saw yo beat me to it.  Unfortunately the body of case law supporting Jefferson's notion of what was actually agreed to and made part of our Constitution, has been allowed to gain as much precedence as the applications of the "commerce clause".

Many years of legal precedence is not impossible to overturn, but it makes the bar much higher and the task more monumental than it might otherwise be. Our Courts have been drifting away from the original meaning of the Constitution for many, many years.
  
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