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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Gorsuch to hear Church-State case. (Read 824 times)
Lily003
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Re: Gorsuch to hear Church-State case.
Reply #30 - 04/17/17 at 21:04:56
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bigmck wrote on 04/17/17 at 18:12:12:
HHHUUUMMM....................I am probably a "Lower Level Religious Person" but, ==  How Do You Know?  Wink


Interesting question, since none of us REALLY KNOW.

I get into serious discussions with my daughter, who's now decided she's an atheist.  She believes there is no God because no real God would allow some of the things that happen TO happen.  I understand her argument.

What I tell her is that nothing but God explains the miracles around us every day.  The formation of a newborn baby, a puppy, a kitten, any creature.  The ocean, the mountains, flowers, sunsets, the variety of life around us.  I told her that my belief is that it couldn't possibly be random.

I have no problem with combining creationism and evolution.

Lily003   Smiley
  
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oldcoot
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Re: Gorsuch to hear Church-State case.
Reply #31 - 04/17/17 at 21:16:52
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Ah, if only students received as much attention and concern about the studies of American History, as they do from critics of their religion.

That which is studied in religious schools, is the business of the religious owners, until they want accreditation.
Then they must accept recommended courses.

If there is disagreement over how long it took to create this earth and the inhabitants thereof, wait--when you die, you'll see how pusillanimous those questions are.
What Christian is brave enough to tell the Creator of the Bible he's wrong?  Not I, said the weasel!  Grin  No, instead we should seek to understand what we have learned and what is meant in the bible.

Did you know the dead sea, which is no longer supplied with water from the Jordan, contains fresh water springs, which function to this day in the salted sea.  Their study reveals complex springs hundreds of feet long and as deep as 90 feet (30 meters). The springs appear from the sea floor through craters as large as 45 feet (15 meters) in diameter and 60 feet (20 meters) deep -- with steep, finely laminated walls and alternating layers of sediment and minerals.

Micro-organisms in fresh water

In all of our learned days, it would seem foolish to disparage statements in the bible, because in almost all cases, those statements have too often been proven true.  The possibilities remain endless.
  

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Ephesians 6: 12
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."Winston Churchill
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oldcoot
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Re: Gorsuch to hear Church-State case.
Reply #32 - 04/17/17 at 21:26:05
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Lily003 wrote on 04/17/17 at 21:04:56:
Interesting question, since none of us REALLY KNOW.

I get into serious discussions with my daughter, who's now decided she's an atheist.  She believes there is no God because no real God would allow some of the things that happen TO happen.  I understand her argument.

What I tell her is that nothing but God explains the miracles around us every day.  The formation of a newborn baby, a puppy, a kitten, any creature.  The ocean, the mountains, flowers, sunsets, the variety of life around us.  I told her that my belief is that it couldn't possibly be random.

I have no problem with combining creationism and evolution.

Lily003   Smiley

I have 3 sons who have posed the same question to me!  My answer was, man has been given a free will.  He may learn, explore, travel, rule, or submit, but he may not impose his will on others..
We are created in God's image and, therefore, are expected to obey God's rules---except where our pesky freedom of will enters the picture and the anchor of the human flesh holds up back.

We can become atheists-or not.
We can murder other people-or not.
We can ignore the 10 commandments and refuse the wisdom of the ages-or not.
All of these things we can do, or not, but in the end, God will sort us all out and we will learn the truth--like it, or not.
  

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Ephesians 6: 12
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."Winston Churchill
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Naturalized-Texan
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Re: Gorsuch to hear Church-State case.
Reply #33 - 04/17/17 at 22:19:56
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Lily003 wrote on 04/17/17 at 21:04:56:
I have no problem with combining creationism and evolution.

Lily003   Smiley

I believe in both Creationism and Evolution. The only real conflict is time, and God's time of 6 days to create the world could easily be millions or billions of Earth years. Remember, God didn't just create the Earth, but He created the entire Universe.
  

"Anthropogenic Global Warming/Climate Change is a massive POLITICAL hoax."
Naturalized-Texan, many times in the past 15 years

"Modern American liberalism, Mussolini's Fascism, and Hitler's Nazism all have their roots in Wilsonian Progressivism."
Naturalized-Texan, 1/7/2009

"The goal of all liberal programs is to produce ever-increasing numbers of poor and ignorant people dependent on government handouts."
Naturalized-Texan, many times in the past 15 years
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muffin
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Re: Gorsuch to hear Church-State case.
Reply #34 - 04/17/17 at 22:32:42
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Naturalized-Texan wrote on 04/17/17 at 22:19:56:
I believe in both Creationism and Evolution. The only real conflict is time, and God's time of 6 days to create the world could easily be millions or billions of Earth years. Remember, God didn't just create the Earth, but He created the entire Universe.


.....many Pantheists define God and Nature as one and the same.
  

Tomorrow is promised to no one.
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Re: Gorsuch to hear Church-State case.
Reply #35 - 04/17/17 at 22:46:36
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Ms. Daisy wrote on 04/16/17 at 23:17:46:
Church and State isn't a cut and dry issue for me. I want Christianity and even parts of Judaism (the old testimate) to be taught and encouraged by public schools, as everywhere else. I do not believe that though about all religions. I don't want public schools teaching about Islam or any other false religions. I have stated in the past that I believe that America is a Christian nation, and her citizens are free to worship the God of Abraham in any way they would like, as long as it is the One True God of Abraham. I whole heartedly believe that was our founders intent.


It is a "cut and dry issue" though, if you consult American History. It's also one that was/is so twisted and manipulated by latter day courts -SCOTUS - that is makes the stomach churn.

"Separation of Church & State" as it has been applied, has no constitutional grounding whatsoever. It was merely cited from a missive Jefferson wrote to a Baptist following, taken out of context, and given constitutional status.

America's history if full of demonstrable evidence where  the Church (Christian) & State interacted on a regular basis.
People confuse (or maybe twist) the meaning of Theocracy with public/private religious freedoms.
  
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Re: Gorsuch to hear Church-State case.
Reply #36 - 04/18/17 at 00:45:04
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Mr Mojo Risen wrote on 04/17/17 at 20:19:44:
As previously stated, the Constitution does not call for a separation of church and state.  Such a separation is impossible under our Constitution.  A true believer of any religion by nature will be influenced by his faith in every aspect of his life, including his political beliefs.

The First Amendment was never intended to keep religion out of our government, rather to keep the government out of our religion.  The government may acknowledge different religious establishments and even work together with them in some common interests, but has to remain neutral in religious training.

Religious schools can be funded the same as public schools for "reading, writing, and arithmetic", but no funding for religious training other than teaching the basic tenants of the major world religions and religion's role in history.

Absolutely spot on, and that premise was what Jefferson was writing about when he penned the now totally misused phrase "wall of separation between church and state." Of course, anyone who reads the entire letter can see Jefferson is remarking on the fact that, between the 1st Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, and the constitutions of the majority of the states, government is forbidden to interfere in any way with religion AND NOT the other way around. Yet progressives insist on the lie that the "wall of separation" is supposed to "protect" government from the influences of religion. Sadly, they have been remarkably successful in promulgating that lie into the general fabric of political science - along with all the other lies used to promote their humanist agenda.

Will we see these lies eventually exposed for what they are? Not until we remove government from the education system.
  
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bigmck
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Re: Gorsuch to hear Church-State case.
Reply #37 - 04/18/17 at 12:20:30
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RedDirt wrote on 04/17/17 at 19:34:27:
I think this is one of those problems that has no solution.
We start out with a law that Washington must remain neutral on religion. Schools develop, then, as basically community
institutions. Then Washington decides it wants to tax and redistribute to school districts, so everyone can be equal.
School boards, with reservations, take the money. The next thing you know, Washington is finding other things about the
systems to correct. Now, school policies wax and wane with the political winds. Shoulda told them to keep the money. Some
districts did.


No, not neutral. The only requirement is that "Government may make no LAW."  There is no prohibition from government putting God on money or having religious things (Ten Commandments) in buildings.
  
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Re: Gorsuch to hear Church-State case.
Reply #38 - 04/22/17 at 11:59:55
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killermccoy wrote on 04/17/17 at 07:14:46:
What parts of Christianity do you want taught, which interpretation of it?  Each faith within Christianity has slightly different versions.  Jefferson was against big religion of more specifically the Anglican Church of England which force fed one set of ideals.

I don't want my son to be taught that God literally made Earth in 7 days and that man walked with dinosaurs.  I don't want my son taught that Adam and Eve simply ate an apple, I do not want my son being taught that Mary is a deity or any other saint should be prayed to and I don't want my son taught that there is a pre tribulation rapture.

Everything I just mentioned is doctrine in different evangelical and Catholic churches.  It would come down to who controls the local school board and that would become organized religion.

The 10 Commandments are universal and school prayer is about as close as you are going to get in public school to be allowed.


That's the problem isn't it? Who decides which denomination in christianity gets taught in the schools?

If I were raising children I would not want them taught ANY religion in schools. That's not what school is for.
  

"Give me Liberty or Give me Death"
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Re: Gorsuch to hear Church-State case.
Reply #39 - 04/22/17 at 12:03:09
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oldcoot wrote on 04/17/17 at 21:26:05:
I have 3 sons who have posed the same question to me!  My answer was, man has been given a free will.  He may learn, explore, travel, rule, or submit, but he may not impose his will on others..
We are created in God's image and, therefore, are expected to obey God's rules---except where our pesky freedom of will enters the picture and the anchor of the human flesh holds up back.

We can become atheists-or not.
We can murder other people-or not.
We can ignore the 10 commandments and refuse the wisdom of the ages-or not.
All of these things we can do, or not, but in the end, God will sort us all out and we will learn the truth--like it, or not.


The problem with this is that people have very different definitions of "god." Yours is based on the bible but that doesnt mean others see "god" as the way you do.
  

"Give me Liberty or Give me Death"
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