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Poll Question: Will President Trump Cave on Daca Type Amnesty?
bars   pie

Yes    
  14 (70.0%)
No    
  6 (30.0%)




Total votes: 20
« Created by: countzero on: 01/09/18 at 12:11:03 »
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Locked Topic Will President Trump Cave on Daca Type Amnesty? (Read 1,353 times)
ConservativeOne
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Re: Will President Trump Cave on Daca Type Amnesty?
Reply #60 - 01/10/18 at 09:04:58
 
Marine 13 wrote on 01/10/18 at 08:53:37:
Your source does not say there "was a STOPPAGE in all immigration between 1920-1965."  Ellis operated until 1954, and the Immigration Act of 1924 established a quota system for immigration.  It limited how many immigrants the US would accept annually to 2% of those already here.  This Act was replaced by the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965. 

The article does not state there was a stoppage of all immigration.  Further, it does not say anything about a mass roundup, mass detention, and a mass deportation of more then 11 million illegals.  Any program that would attempt such a thing would be a logistical and beaucratic nightmare of the greatest proportion.  How would you even identify who is illegal, and who is not, when the courts have consistantly ruled against racial profiling?  In order to roundup all illegals, the President would have to suspend habeas corpus rights within the US, and then issue a blanket writ of mandamus to every state.  Such an action would not withstand a judicial challenge, and rightfully so.




I agree. Not only are there legal aspects but as you noted yesterday it physically impossible. The one thing that bothers me as well is we say 700,000 but what about the collateral relatives which probably brings the total far higher. Some of these "kids" are adults so I'd still like to see the parents if here deported but it's a Catch-22. If we were to deport the relatives there goes the idea of Dreamers allowed to stay supporting Republicans in the future. What a mess!
  
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Re: Will President Trump Cave on Daca Type Amnesty?
Reply #61 - 01/10/18 at 09:37:14
 
ConservativeOne wrote on 01/10/18 at 07:17:03:
Timing is everything.

A Judge Just Ordered Trump To Keep DACA

“The Justice Department will continue to vigorously defend this position, and looks forward to vindicating its position in further litigation,” he added.

The administration justified DACA’s termination on separation of powers grounds, arguing only Congress could authorize such a program.

Alsup strongly rejected this view, pointing to a 2014 Justice Department memo purporting to show that DACA’s features are rooted in Supreme Court case law or related powers granted by Congress.

Since Alsup concluded the program’s rescission was based on a flawed legal premise, he said the action was “arbitrary, capricious, an abuse of discretion, [and] otherwise not in accordance with law.”

Alsup further noted that Trump himself has determined DACA serves the public interest, citing two Sept. 2017 tweets in which the president expressed support for so-called “Dreamers.”

“We seem to be in the unusual position wherein the ultimate authority over the agency, the chief executive, publicly favors the very program the agency has ended,” the judge wrote.



http://dailycaller.com/2018/01/09/a-judge-just-ordered-trump-to-keep-daca/


Here is another example to support dividing the 9th court of appeals into more regional areas. 

Obama violated the US Constitution by enacting law through Executive Order and circumventing the legislative process.  All laws are required to be passed by the two legislative houses.  The only powers that the President has is deciding to sign or Veto the law.  And his Veto power is not absolute, because it can be overruled by a 2/3rds vote in both legislative houses.  The Constitution does not allow for the President to practice tantrum politics, and enact a law by executive order just because the legislative failed to act. 

In this case, the appeals court has things backwards.  It is saying that an illegally enacted law must remain in place until the legislature has acted to create a permanent law.  The ruling is putting the cart before the horse.  The legislation has already spoken on the matter.  They turned it down when they refused to act in the first place.  Further, the US Court of Appeals does not have the authority to force the legislature to enact or revise a law.  The courts can rule that a law is unconstitutional, and therefore set it aside until the legislature revises it to clear the constitutionality challenges.  But in this case there is no law to challenge.  All Executive Orders from a former administration can be rescinded by the current administration at any time. 

It is really interesting that this ruling falls on the heels of last months SCOTUS ruling that the Trump Administration was not required to produce emails, letters, memo's and legal opinions relating to the decision of rescinding Obama's DACA Executive Order on DACA.  Such documents are protected under Executive Privilege.  After AG Gonzales replace John Ashcraft, he fired a 8 US Attorneys for poor performance.  The DNC did not buy that reasoning, and wanted all documents relating to the decision process.  As I have stated, such process are protected by Executive Privilege.  The Democrat help Congress attempted to circumvent EP by getting a court to rule that the Congress would decide what is covered under EP.  That is when VP Chaney transferred all the requested documents to the RNC Server, and had the DNC's heads spinning for more then a decade.

Now, the DNC has attempted to get the federal court system to violate Trump's Executive Privilege.  This did not work any better then the previous attempt.  So, now they have resorted to another tactic.  You can expect the Trump Administration to petition the SCOTUS to issue a restraining order against the appeal courts ruling.
  

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Re: Will President Trump Cave on Daca Type Amnesty?
Reply #62 - 01/10/18 at 09:50:00
 
Marine 13 wrote on 01/10/18 at 09:37:14:
Here is another example to support dividing the 9th court of appeals into more regional areas. 

Obama violated the US Constitution by enacting law through Executive Order and circumventing the legislative process.  All laws are required to be passed by the two legislative houses.  The only powers that the President has is deciding to sign or Veto the law.  And his Veto power is not absolute, because it can be overruled by a 2/3rds vote in both legislative houses.  The Constitution does not allow for the President to practice tantrum politics, and enact a law by executive order just because the legislative failed to act. 

In this case, the appeals court has things backwards.  It is saying that an illegally enacted law must remain in place until the legislature has acted to create a permanent law.  The ruling is putting the cart before the horse.  The legislation has already spoken on the matter.  They turned it down when they refused to act in the first place.  Further, the US Court of Appeals does not have the authority to force the legislature to enact or revise a law.  The courts can rule that a law is unconstitutional, and therefore set it aside until the legislature revises it to clear the constitutionality challenges.  But in this case there is no law to challenge.  All Executive Orders from a former administration can be rescinded by the current administration at any time. 

It is really interesting that this ruling falls on the heels of last months SCOTUS ruling that the Trump Administration was not required to produce emails, letters, memo's and legal opinions relating to the decision of rescinding Obama's DACA Executive Order on DACA.  Such documents are protected under Executive Privilege.  After AG Gonzales replace John Ashcraft, he fired a 8 US Attorneys for poor performance.  The DNC did not buy that reasoning, and wanted all documents relating to the decision process.  As I have stated, such process are protected by Executive Privilege.  The Democrat help Congress attempted to circumvent EP by getting a court to rule that the Congress would decide what is covered under EP.  That is when VP Chaney transferred all the requested documents to the RNC Server, and had the DNC's heads spinning for more then a decade.

Now, the DNC has attempted to get the federal court system to violate Trump's Executive Privilege.  This did not work any better then the previous attempt.  So, now they have resorted to another tactic.  You can expect the Trump Administration to petition the SCOTUS to issue a restraining order against the appeal courts ruling.    



All true. Please don't get me started on the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit. Wink In case anyone is unaware:

"Controversy
Allegations of liberalism
According to the most current count, the Ninth Circuit has among the highest percentage of sitting judges appointed by Democratic presidents. Republicans argue the court is biased because of its relatively high proportion of Democratic appointees"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Court_of_Appeals_for_the_Ninth_Circu...
  
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Re: Will President Trump Cave on Daca Type Amnesty?
Reply #63 - 01/10/18 at 10:25:21
 
ConservativeOne wrote on 01/10/18 at 09:04:58:
I agree. Not only are there legal aspects but as you noted yesterday it physically impossible. The one thing that bothers me as well is we say 700,000 but what about the collateral relatives which probably brings the total far higher. Some of these "kids" are adults so I'd still like to see the parents if here deported but it's a Catch-22. If we were to deport the relatives there goes the idea of Dreamers allowed to stay supporting Republicans in the future. What a mess!


Actually, there is mechanisms in the Immigration and Naturalism Act that address this very issue.  An individual born in the US, and living abroad, retains their US citizenship until his/her 18th birthday.  It further states that the acts of a parent does not jeopardize the citizenship of the child.  So, the children are sent away with the parents.  Then upon reaching their 18th birthday, they can return to the US with their birth certificate.  That will prove that they are natural born citizens of the US.  That law needs to be strengthened to read that the ICE will conduct a background check to ensure that they did not violate any laws during their absence. 

There is no law that states that a child born is the US to foreign born parents are required to remain in the US.  It only states that they retain their US Citizenship until their 18th birthday.  I think that there should be an additional caveat that if the child does not return physically to the US by their 19th birthday, then they become a resident of the country that they are residing, and no longer subject to US jurisdiction.  That would close the whole anchor baby argument.
  

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Re: Will President Trump Cave on Daca Type Amnesty?
Reply #64 - 01/10/18 at 12:28:27
 
bigmck wrote on 01/10/18 at 07:20:54:
I agree but there are some here to would have you believe Trump is at the border waving the illegals through.

I noticed that. Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
  

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Re: Will President Trump Cave on Daca Type Amnesty?
Reply #65 - 01/10/18 at 14:07:58
 
bigmck wrote on 01/10/18 at 07:20:54:
I agree but there are some here to would have you believe Trump is at the border waving the illegals through.


Yup. Or that he lied, or that he is a liar, or that he did not mean anything he said about immigration or that..... wait for it.... wait....

He is a NY democrat...


Ms. Borelli
  

"Within the pages of the Bible are the answers to all the problems men face.
"Facts are stubborn things.
"[Conservatives] believe everyday is the Fourth of July, but the democrats believe everyday is April 15th.
"We cannot play innocents abroad in a world that is not innocent.
"People who are pro abortion are already born.
"The problem with liberals is not that they are ignorant, the problem is they know so much that is not so.
Ronald Reagan
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Re: Will President Trump Cave on Daca Type Amnesty?
Reply #66 - 01/10/18 at 14:28:33
 
newt2008 wrote on 01/10/18 at 14:07:58:
Yup. Or that he lied, or that he is a liar, or that he did not mean anything he said about immigration or that..... wait for it.... wait....

He is a NY democrat...


Ms. Borelli


Ms Borelli -- I am shocked at your statement.  What was it exactly that Trump said, don't paraphrase, that has you in assault mode?
  
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Re: Will President Trump Cave on Daca Type Amnesty?
Reply #67 - 01/10/18 at 14:35:38
 
There is no rulebook for Negotiating.  The first thing a young negotiator is taught in Negotiating 101 is "to immediately set out your most extreme position."

It is naive to think that negotiating is an honorable sport.  Sorry, but the Marquis of Queensberry is the patron saint of Old English boxing. 

Trump is working his butt off for us.  It might not be prudent to "look the gift-horse in the mouth."  In the art of negotiating, there are no lies.
  
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Re: Will President Trump Cave on Daca Type Amnesty?
Reply #68 - 01/10/18 at 14:40:40
 
bigmck wrote on 01/10/18 at 14:28:33:
Ms Borelli -- I am shocked at your statement.  What was it exactly that Trump said, don't paraphrase, that has you in assault mode?

I think that newt2008 (Ms Borelli) was just being sarcastic.
  

"Anthropogenic Global Warming/Climate Change is a massive POLITICAL hoax."
Naturalized-Texan, many times in the past 15 years

"Modern American liberalism, Mussolini's Fascism, and Hitler's Nazism all have their roots in Wilsonian Progressivism."
Naturalized-Texan, 1/7/2009

"The goal of all liberal programs is to produce ever-increasing numbers of poor and ignorant people dependent on government handouts."
Naturalized-Texan, many times in the past 15 years
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Re: Will President Trump Cave on Daca Type Amnesty?
Reply #69 - 01/10/18 at 14:43:59
 
bigmck wrote on 01/10/18 at 14:28:33:
Ms Borelli -- I am shocked at your statement.  What was it exactly that Trump said, don't paraphrase, that has you in assault mode?


E Pluribus Awesome. In my stable genius President I trust.  That said, I am going to stop responding on these threads - I shouldn’t even be on this one.  I can’t go thru the rings anymore. 

Ms. Borelli
  

"Within the pages of the Bible are the answers to all the problems men face.
"Facts are stubborn things.
"[Conservatives] believe everyday is the Fourth of July, but the democrats believe everyday is April 15th.
"We cannot play innocents abroad in a world that is not innocent.
"People who are pro abortion are already born.
"The problem with liberals is not that they are ignorant, the problem is they know so much that is not so.
Ronald Reagan
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