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oldcoot
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Judge Sticks it to LGBTXYUMLOT*@#$$% GROUP
02/07/18 at 20:36:12
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Nope!  Baker doesn't have to make a cake for a couple with whom the baker doesn't agree.

Finally!  Justice Wins!

(Well, until the 9th circuit catches this!)
Ho hum!
  

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Re: Judge Sticks it to LGBTXYUMLOT*@#$$% GROUP
Reply #1 - 02/08/18 at 06:50:11
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This is nice, but don't expect many more.  Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
  

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Re: Judge Sticks it to LGBTXYUMLOT*@#$$% GROUP
Reply #2 - 02/08/18 at 07:11:09
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bigmck wrote on 02/08/18 at 06:50:11:
This is nice, but don't expect many more.  Even a broken clock is right twice a day.



Smiley
  
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Re: Judge Sticks it to LGBTXYUMLOT*@#$$% GROUP
Reply #3 - 02/08/18 at 08:25:47
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I agree with the article that this case is different from those past.

If a baker already has a cake baked and displayed for sale in her bakery, but refuses to sell it to a customer because she doesn't like their religion, gender, race, sexual preference, etc., she would be unlawfully discriminating.

But if the cake hasn't been baked yet, and a customer came in and said he/she wanted a wedding cake with two women/men  kissing on it -- or a cake that read "F... Donald Trump," etc. etc. -- she wouldn't be lawfully compelled to bake and decorated the cake as such -- if it offended, violated her religious, personal, etc., beliefs.

I think the above is the distinction the judge made. On the other hand, what a higher court may rule remains to be seen.

On the other hand, if a cake is already made and decorated for sale -- how the person that buys it uses it is their right. At least that's the way I see it (even though I may not like it).
  
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Re: Judge Sticks it to LGBTXYUMLOT*@#$$% GROUP
Reply #4 - 02/08/18 at 09:11:14
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WAlt wrote on 02/08/18 at 08:25:47:
I agree with the article that this case is different from those past.

If a baker already has a cake baked and displayed for sale in her bakery, but refuses to sell it to a customer because she doesn't like their religion, gender, race, sexual preference, etc., she would be unlawfully discriminating.

But if the cake hasn't been baked yet, and a customer came in and said he/she wanted a wedding cake with two women/men  kissing on it -- or a cake that read "F... Donald Trump," etc. etc. -- she wouldn't be lawfully compelled to bake and decorated the cake as such -- if it offended, violated her religious, personal, etc., beliefs.

I think the above is the distinction the judge made. On the other hand, what a higher court may rule remains to be seen.

On the other hand, if a cake is already made and decorated for sale -- how the person that buys it uses it is their right. At least that's the way I see it (even though I may not like it).


FWIW, I agree with you.
  

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Re: Judge Sticks it to LGBTXYUMLOT*@#$$% GROUP
Reply #5 - 02/08/18 at 09:44:18
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Makes sense!
  
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Re: Judge Sticks it to LGBTXYUMLOT*@#$$% GROUP
Reply #6 - 02/08/18 at 14:49:09
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WAlt wrote on 02/08/18 at 08:25:47:
I agree with the article that this case is different from those past.

If a baker already has a cake baked and displayed for sale in her bakery, but refuses to sell it to a customer because she doesn't like their religion, gender, race, sexual preference, etc., she would be unlawfully discriminating.

But if the cake hasn't been baked yet, and a customer came in and said he/she wanted a wedding cake with two women/men  kissing on it -- or a cake that read "F... Donald Trump," etc. etc. -- she wouldn't be lawfully compelled to bake and decorated the cake as such -- if it offended, violated her religious, personal, etc., beliefs.


I think the above is the distinction the judge made. On the other hand, what a higher court may rule remains to be seen.

On the other hand, if a cake is already made and decorated for sale -- how the person that buys it uses it is their right. At least that's the way I see it (even though I may not like it).

This has been the argument of the Oregon bakery case that will (eventually) see a SCOTUS decision. AFAIK, same for every other bakery, florist, and other wedding specialty services sued by the ever-so "tolerant" LGBTQMIAFDUPMORONRWHAT tyranny.
  
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Re: Judge Sticks it to LGBTXYUMLOT*@#$$% GROUP
Reply #7 - 02/08/18 at 15:45:34
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WAlt wrote on 02/08/18 at 08:25:47:
I agree with the article that this case is different from those past.

If a baker already has a cake baked and displayed for sale in her bakery, but refuses to sell it to a customer because she doesn't like their religion, gender, race, sexual preference, etc., she would be unlawfully discriminating.



I read that but it made no sense in relation to other cases.  No one goes to a bakery and buys an off-the-shelf Wedding Cake.  They are always made special.  I feel sure in other cases we have heard they were special order.
  

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Re: Judge Sticks it to LGBTXYUMLOT*@#$$% GROUP
Reply #8 - 02/08/18 at 19:14:11
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bigmck wrote on 02/08/18 at 15:45:34:
I read that but it made no sense in relation to other cases.  No one goes to a bakery and buys an off-the-shelf Wedding Cake.  They are always made special.  I feel sure in other cases we have heard they were special order.


I don't disagree with your take on it. Like you, I'm only going by what the article said.

I think the case should go to the SCOTUS. We need to find where the line is drawn with respect to a baker or any other business that does custom, designing work.

For instance, say I was the proprietor of a pennant, flag, poster, T-shirt design shop. If you came to my shop and said you wanted me to design some posters reading President Trump is a racist, bigoted , white supremacist womanizer -- I feel I have every right to refuse you.

I'm just using the above as an example. If the SCOTUS overruled me -- then I would be appalled!  I would feel my civil rights were being denied.

I would feel the same if a white supremacist wanted me to design a T-shirt showing Obama with a noose around his neck, with a caption beneath him calling saying: The only good n.gger is a dead n.gger!

Where is the line drawn, is my point.

On the other hand, not baking a wedding cake for a gay couple is, IMO, not comparable to my above two examples.

I think it would depend on what the gay couple requested to write/design on the cake. For instance, if a the gay couple said, "Let's have a gay orgy!," then I would think the baker would be within his/her rights not to bake a cake with such a description on it.


  
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ZeWazir
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Re: Judge Sticks it to LGBTXYUMLOT*@#$$% GROUP
Reply #9 - 02/08/18 at 19:47:36
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WAlt wrote on 02/08/18 at 19:14:11:
I don't disagree with your take on it. Like you, I'm only going by what the article said.

I think the case should go to the SCOTUS. We need to find where the line is drawn with respect to a baker or any other business that does custom, designing work.

For instance, say I was the proprietor of a pennant, flag, poster, T-shirt design shop. If you came to my shop and said you wanted me to design some posters reading President Trump is a racist, bigoted , white supremacist womanizer -- I feel I have every right to refuse you.

I'm just using the above as an example. If the SCOTUS overruled me -- then I would be appalled!  I would feel my civil rights were being denied.

I would feel the same if a white supremacist wanted me to design a T-shirt showing Obama with a noose around his neck, with a caption beneath him calling saying: The only good n.gger is a dead n.gger!

Where is the line drawn, is my point.

On the other hand, not baking a wedding cake for a gay couple is, IMO, not comparable to my above two examples.

I think it would depend on what the gay couple requested to write/design on the cake. For instance, if a the gay couple said, "Let's have a gay orgy!," then I would think the baker would be within his/her rights not to bake a cake with such a description on it.



Explain, please, where the difference lies.

For those who follow Scripture, using our talents to support that which is a sinful act, IS acting in a sinful manner. Being forced to perform a sinful act, being forced to go against our sacred religious beliefs is, in our view, far worse than being told we must make a sign at variance with our political views.

The first amendment has been under attack by the far left for over half a century now. The first attacks came in the form of redefining what is meant by "Congress shall make no law with respect to establishment of religion....." We are so used to the "Separation of Church and State" it is practically engraved on our frontal lobes.

But the 1st Amendment actually reads "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."  The left is ALL OVER the first phrase forbidding even the merest possible HINT of "establishing" religion; but COMPLETELY FORGET the second part about being forbidden to prohibit the free expression thereof.  Along comes the leftist influence in the court which claims that government CAN prohibit the free expression of religion (or violate ANY of our liberties, for that matter) "if the State has a vested interest in doing so' and as long as such takes the "minimal form" available. (Paraphrasing here, I am not a lawyer....)

BULLSTUFF squared and cubed. If it is wrong to use "equal protection" principle to force a person to use their talents and/or business to write a message contrary to their POLITICAL leanings, how can it be OKAY to force them to violate their RELIGIOUS beliefs, which are MUCH MORE FUNDAMENTAL?!? Which does the 1st Amendment mention first: freedom of religion - THEN freedom of speech.
  
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