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WAlt
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Re: Judge Sticks it to LGBTXYUMLOT*@#$$% GROUP
Reply #10 - 02/08/18 at 20:46:17
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ZeWazir wrote on 02/08/18 at 19:47:36:
Explain, please, where the difference lies.

For those who follow Scripture, using our talents to support that which is a sinful act, IS acting in a sinful manner. Being forced to perform a sinful act, being forced to go against our sacred religious beliefs is, in our view, far worse than being told we must make a sign at variance with our political views.

The first amendment has been under attack by the far left for over half a century now. The first attacks came in the form of redefining what is meant by "Congress shall make no law with respect to establishment of religion....." We are so used to the "Separation of Church and State" it is practically engraved on our frontal lobes.

But the 1st Amendment actually reads "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."  The left is ALL OVER the first phrase forbidding even the merest possible HINT of "establishing" religion; but COMPLETELY FORGET the second part about being forbidden to prohibit the free expression thereof.  Along comes the leftist influence in the court which claims that government CAN prohibit the free expression of religion (or violate ANY of our liberties, for that matter) "if the State has a vested interest in doing so' and as long as such takes the "minimal form" available. (Paraphrasing here, I am not a lawyer....)

BULLSTUFF squared and cubed. If it is wrong to use "equal protection" principle to force a person to use their talents and/or business to write a message contrary to their POLITICAL leanings, how can it be OKAY to force them to violate their RELIGIOUS beliefs, which are MUCH MORE FUNDAMENTAL?!? Which does the 1st Amendment mention first: freedom of religion - THEN freedom of speech.


No court, IMO, can force a person (baker, etc.) to write a message on a product they sell (cake, T-shirt, etc.) that violates their religious beliefs. Period. End of sentence, etc.

If a gay person wants to buy a product (cake, T-shirt, etc.) with something respectful printed on it, say, "Have a nice day," there's nothing offensive or contrary to one's religious beliefs -- and the baker, T-shirt maker, etc., should honor the wishes of the gay customer.

What I've been reading in many of the gay wedding cake news reports is that a Christian baker just refuses to sell a wedding cake (a generic cake) to a couple -- just because they are gay.

IMO, if that is the case, then the Christian baker is discriminating unlawfully. No different if a Christian private grocer refused to sell a bottle of milk and a loaf of bread -- just because the person was gay.

But if the gay couple wants the Christian baker to put two men (or two women) human figures on top of the cake embracing, with written icing that wishes Ken and John a happy wedding day and lifetime bliss (or whatever) -- I don't believe the baker has to do that. That is clear violation of his beliefs.

But to bake a plain cake with traditional icing, IMO, isn't violating a Christian baker's religious beliefs.  If the gay couple want something beyond that, then they can decorate the cake further.

My opinion may be wrong in the eyes of a liberal court, but that's my opinion, notwithstanding what a liberal court might say otherwise.
  
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ZeWazir
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Re: Judge Sticks it to LGBTXYUMLOT*@#$$% GROUP
Reply #11 - 02/08/18 at 21:47:51
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Never thought I'd be having THIS argument with other CONSERVATIVES!!  So much for freedom. Our society is truly Fing DEAD. The left's insidious lies have penetrated too deep for too long. God save us.

First point: Show me in the CONSTITUTION this "right to marry" so one can honestly compare the verbiage to ascertain which is the more fundamental. I can sure as heck show you the right to free exercise of religion.

If it were "just a cake" then you might have a point. And, in fact, the baker offered to sell them anything from his generic cake selection. They then could have decorated it themselves.

But a wedding cake is a very special kind of cake. They don't have writing on them (or hardly ever?) I, personally, have NEVER seen writing on a wedding cake. I have sen chocolate wedding cakes. I have seen black icing. (yea....) I have seen multi-tiered, double tiered, even three-sectioned single tier. But NONE had written messages.

The decor, the style, the construction: all are part of being a "Wedding Cake".  Look at 1000 images of random cakes, and you will be able to very easily pick out all of those that are wedding cakes. Look up images of wedding cakes and I doubt you'll find a separate message on any.

The cake itself IS the message. Though of infinite variations, they are still a unique construction with a single purpose: to celebrate the matrimonial union between two people, whom Christian beliefs state unequivocally must be one man and one woman. To be forced to make one for any other type of union is abomination.

Since the cake IS the message, then being forced to construct a cake which denotes that which is against one religious beliefs is a violation of the 1st amendment. Up against that fact is a "right" that had to be INVENTED by the leftist, God-hating courts to get this far.
  
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bigmck
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Re: Judge Sticks it to LGBTXYUMLOT*@#$$% GROUP
Reply #12 - 02/08/18 at 22:34:07
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I do recall one "baker case" where the baker offered to sell the cake and the "two man topping" individually but the couple did now want that.  They specifically want the baker to use his "art" to make the cake with both together.  The court found against the baker.  ==  This whole thing is just crazy.
  
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ZeWazir
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Re: Judge Sticks it to LGBTXYUMLOT*@#$$% GROUP
Reply #13 - 02/08/18 at 23:59:57
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bigmck wrote on 02/08/18 at 22:34:07:
I do recall one "baker case" where the baker offered to sell the cake and the "two man topping" individually but the couple did now want that.  They specifically want the baker to use his "art" to make the cake with both together.  The court found against the baker.  ==  This whole thing is just crazy.

This whole thing is all too many sexual deviants being petty tyrants who have nothing better to do with their miserable mixed-up lives than try to run everyone else's lives in order to be recognized as "normal" (when they are anything but) -- and a bunch of power hungry drunkards in government who are all too happy to use them like tinker toys to usurp the authority to run our lives in their stead. (and their's too, but they're too f'd in the head to realize it.)
  
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