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bigmck
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Re: Blue states rally to upend Electoral College
Reply #10 - 05/11/18 at 09:30:29
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Bob S wrote on 05/11/18 at 01:56:26:
It could, theoretically, impact the outcome.  One of the states could go republican - - but if the dem candidate won the popular vote, that state's electoral voters would cast their electoral votes for the dem.  If this gains traction (and it surely could) - - then future campaigns would concentrate on the major markets - and completely ignore the smaller states.

this would be, in my view, a true constitutional crisis.


This is what I was asking in my original post.  Why/How would this happen.  An Elector picked by the State Republican Party is not going to vote for the Democrat candidate.  That is what would have to happen to make it work.  The concept seems very improbable at best.
  
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Re: Blue states rally to upend Electoral College
Reply #11 - 05/11/18 at 11:04:58
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bigmck wrote on 05/11/18 at 09:30:29:
This is what I was asking in my original post.  Why/How would this happen.  An Elector picked by the State Republican Party is not going to vote for the Democrat candidate.  That is what would have to happen to make it work.  The concept seems very improbable at best. 


I hope you don't mind me chiming in here.

The law that the Governor of Connecticut is going to sign takes the right to choose who to vote for away from the political parties, and replaces it with a state mandate.  The law would require the electorates to cast their votes for the winner if the National Popular Vote.  No matter how the state voters voted. 

The Constitution tells each state how many electorates that each state has, but it allows the states electors are allocated.  Most states are a winner takes all process.  Whoever wins the statse's popular vote gets all the electorates.  Other states divide the electorates by the percentage of the vote.  This law will create a third process.  One that ignores the state's own popular vote, and replaces it with the National Popular vote.  This process would eliminate the candidates choosing their own elecorates. 
  

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bigmck
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Re: Blue states rally to upend Electoral College
Reply #12 - 05/11/18 at 12:58:28
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Marine 13 wrote on 05/11/18 at 11:04:58:
I hope you don't mind me chiming in here.

The law that the Governor of Connecticut is going to sign takes the right to choose who to vote for away from the political parties, and replaces it with a state mandate.  The law would require the electorates to cast their votes for the winner if the National Popular Vote.  No matter how the state voters voted. 

The Constitution tells each state how many electorates that each state has, but it allows the states electors are allocated.  Most states are a winner takes all process.  Whoever wins the statse's popular vote gets all the electorates.  Other states divide the electorates by the percentage of the vote.  This law will create a third process.  One that ignores the state's own popular vote, and replaces it with the National Popular vote.  This process would eliminate the candidates choosing their own elecorates. 


Thank you.  The highlighted part is what I was missing.  The process is clear now. == They are choosing a States Electors on the basis of what the outcome in other states are.  I see a bunch of Constitutional Issues with that procedure.
  
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Re: Blue states rally to upend Electoral College
Reply #13 - 05/11/18 at 13:33:27
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I don't really think this is going to fly, any more than CA will secede!

Voters are NOT going to like the idea that the State mandate costs them their vote, so the state can go to the most popular candidate.

If that's the case, we'll be electing some idiot from follywood and 'Amurika" will cease to exist.

Here's one reason why it will fail:
Quote:
The law would require the electorates to cast their votes for the winner if the National Popular Vote...

What?  The're going to WAIT to see who won the national "popularity" vote?

Nah!  I doubt it will ever happen.
We may not care for the electoral process, but it seems the best way to do it, at present---either that, or LA and NY will OWN the country.
  

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Re: Blue states rally to upend Electoral College
Reply #14 - 05/11/18 at 13:37:41
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Marine 13 wrote on 05/11/18 at 08:49:31:
There is actually a bigger impact then you might imagine.  The law that Connecticut's Governor is about to sign would require the state's electors to vote for the winner of the National Popular Vote.  No matter who won the state's popular vote, the state's electorates would be cast for the winner of the National Popular Vote.  Makes you wonder why they would go so far as to even hold elections in Connecticut.  Their 16 million voters would have little impact against the 137 million votes casted.  I know.  The difference between Hillary and Trump was some 2.9 million (supposedly), but Hillary only won the Connecticut by (roughly) 200,000 votes. 

There will undoubtedly be Constitutional challenge to these laws, but I am afraid that the courts would wait until the unforeseen circumstances were to happen.  This law would not have impacted the 2016 election, because Hillary won the state's vote.  All 7 of their electorates went to Hillary.  Trump would have had to win the state's popular vote, and Hillary won the National Popular vote for this law to come into play.  Until a candidate wins the popular states popular vote and loses the national popular vote, there will be no standing to challenge the law. 

Does the new law actually require their electoral votes to go to the popular vote winner NOW, or is it like the rest of the states; waiting until enough "join" to constitute 270 electoral votes?

If the latter, I don't believe they will ever achieve their goal.

If the former, they will, undoubtedly, rescind their idiot law the first time the popular vote turns their electors red -- which could very well be 2020.
  
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Re: Blue states rally to upend Electoral College
Reply #15 - 05/12/18 at 10:09:10
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ZeWazir wrote on 05/11/18 at 13:37:41:
Does the new law actually require their electoral votes to go to the popular vote winner NOW, or is it like the rest of the states; waiting until enough "join" to constitute 270 electoral votes?

If the latter, I don't believe they will ever achieve their goal.

If the former, they will, undoubtedly, rescind their idiot law the first time the popular vote turns their electors red -- which could very well be 2020.


From my reading of the law, the delegates will not be awarded until the election count for all the states have been counted.  Then whomever is leading in the popular vote will get the state's electorates.
  

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Re: Blue states rally to upend Electoral College
Reply #16 - 05/12/18 at 10:35:27
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Marine 13 wrote on 05/12/18 at 10:09:10:
From my reading of the law, the delegates will not be awarded until the election count for all the states have been counted.  Then whomever is leading in the popular vote will get the state's electorates.

If that is the case, they will trip over themselves reversing that law the first time a 'pub takes the popular vote, an event which has a reasonable probability of occurring in 2020.

In fact, if Trump wins in 2020, I'll bet CT will find some reason to break their own law.
  
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Re: Blue states rally to upend Electoral College
Reply #17 - 05/12/18 at 10:40:17
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ZeWazir wrote on 05/11/18 at 13:37:41:
Does the new law actually require their electoral votes to go to the popular vote winner NOW, or is it like the rest of the states; waiting until enough "join" to constitute 270 electoral votes?

If the latter, I don't believe they will ever achieve their goal.

If the former, they will, undoubtedly, rescind their idiot law the first time the popular vote turns their electors red -- which could very well be 2020.


From the Link ==
"In theory, the game-changing compact would take effect once it signs on states representing at least 270 electoral votes, the threshold to win the presidency. With the expected addition of Connecticut's seven electoral votes, the group now has 172."

Now the State Political Parties choose the Electors and which ever party wins the state, those Electors actually vote.  There was talk of some Electors not voting for Trump and throw it to Hillary.  Trump won 306 Electors but actually only had 303 vote for him.  They can vote for who ever they want. It seems having someone besides the Parties pick the Electors would be ripe for Government Overthrow.
  
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Re: Blue states rally to upend Electoral College
Reply #18 - 05/12/18 at 11:18:29
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bigmck wrote on 05/12/18 at 10:40:17:
From the Link ==
"In theory, the game-changing compact would take effect once it signs on states representing at least 270 electoral votes, the threshold to win the presidency. With the expected addition of Connecticut's seven electoral votes, the group now has 172."

Now the State Political Parties choose the Electors and which ever party wins the state, those Electors actually vote.  There was talk of some Electors not voting for Trump and throw it to Hillary.  Trump won 306 Electors but actually only had 303 vote for him.  They can vote for who ever they want. It seems having someone besides the Parties pick the Electors would be ripe for Government Overthrow.

The freedom or compulsion of electors to cast their vote is 100% dependent on the laws of the states. As the Constitution says, states appoint their electors "in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct."

Some states absolutely require their electors to cast their votes according to the outcome of the popular vote for that state. Other states do not have such a requirement, which would theoretically allow electors to cast theirs however they desire, although I doubt any state's laws definitively state an elector is free to vote as they wish.

As such, a state law which requires their electors to cast their votes according to the outcome of the national popular vote is well within the scope of the Constitution.

I don't anticipate them getting enough states to sign on to such a compact to total 270 votes anytime in the near future, though. The first cries coming from the 2000 election were silenced by the outcome of the 2004 election. Besides, if they ever do get 270 votes committed to the popular vote, it will be moot, because by then we'll have effectively become a one-party nation anyway.
  
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Re: Blue states rally to upend Electoral College
Reply #19 - 05/14/18 at 12:01:46
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ZeWazir wrote on 05/12/18 at 10:35:27:
If that is the case, they will trip over themselves reversing that law the first time a 'pub takes the popular vote, an event which has a reasonable probability of occurring in 2020.

In fact, if Trump wins in 2020, I'll bet CT will find some reason to break their own law.


That is always the way Demwits do.  Remember Harry Reir using the "Nuke Optiion" to get Obama appointments through the Sentate, the crying when the GOP did the same thing  to get Neil Gorsuch appointed to the SCOTUS.  Dems have always been short sighted.
  

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